forge refurb

[keith9]

unbeknownst to my wife (she's on vaca visiting her folks with our children), I traveled up river this morning to look at this forge and now I have it home.  Lord knows there's a lot of other things I should be tending to but I've wanted this for a while ???

Needs new legs and I'll have to fab some sort of a tube from the blower to the forge.  Blower is all intact and turns fine although it's a little wobbly.  Once I get it apart I'll know more about what it needs.

 

I cleaned it up a bit and removed the bolts that held the legs in place to clean them up and get them turning better.  

 

Beyond that I wonder what parts are missing and what they are called so I can find out more about what it should like like for the rebuild.

 

I couldn't find any pictures of this unit online to compare.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pete

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome to the forum Pete.

Canadian Forge & Blower Co. was a subsidiary of the Buffalo Forge Co. If you look up Buffalo forge you will probably find a lot about them.

BTW if you put your location in your profile you might be surprised how many IFI members are near you and a lot of questions are location dependent.

[keith9]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will do so.

Pete

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

As far as missing parts, I don't see many. The connection from the blower to the fire pot can just be some flex dryer hose with worm radiator hose clamps. If the blower turns OK without any rude noises, I would just lube it up and use it. Most of the hand crank blowers run in an oil bath like 80wt gear lube or chainsaw bar oil. Someone more familiar with the Canadian/Buffalo blowers will correct that if I'm wrong about the lube. You should be heating metal in short order with that good find.

PS the stock support can probably be straightened out cold on the anvil.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I would recommend flexible exhaust pipe or even rigged pre made bends to mate the two. I recomend you learn to forge roses to appease the Missis

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Pete, glad to have you. Nice score! Flex exhaust pipe makes a durable connection though almost anything about that diameter will work fine, all it has to do is contain a low pressure air flow.

In the first and last pictures there appears to be an oil hole in the top of the gear casing. If so it only needs a FEW drops of oil per session. Mine is different, a Champion 400 but it has what appears to be an oil level plug a couple inches above the lowest shaft connection in the case. It takes about 1/4 cup of oil to fill the case to the level plug. Then over the next few hours it all leaks out and covers the floor. I cracked the case to replace the gasket but the case won't accept a gasket, rubber or rope seal. The lowest gear runs in a shallow track that maybe holds a couple tsp of oil max.

I can't say for sure about your blower but if you put some oil in it stand it in a drip pan till you know for sure it'll hold oil. Mine only wants 2-3 drops of oil per session and it hums along for more hours than I want to work in a session. I'm NOT saying I'm right I really want to help you avoid a potential mess.

Sweet forge, the rod that looks like a handle folds down to support longer work in the fire. The handle below is to work the clinker breaker, visible down the fire pot. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[keith9]

I will have to keep this fabulous distraction in check although it is critical to have something like this that excites my ambition.

 

Thank you all for these introductory comments, I carefully digested every word.  I'm following up with the guy I bought this from for location of the missing blower connection but you have me well equiped to deal with it otherwise if need be.

 

The stock support can't be removed until it is straightened out a bit but we have the technology to deal with that.  

 

I've got my grandfathers old post vice, anvil, swage blocks and some tongs.  I've long made our own charcoal so I'll be using that for fuel.  maybe, we'll see.

 

Before all that I want to get the slag chipped out, new legs on the forge and that blower apart which starts tonight.

 

Roses will be a ways out but I'd like to start with things like a toilet paper holder.  Won't she be thrilled

Pete

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning from the left Coast,

Welcome to IFI, in your part of the world there is the Maritime Blacksmiths Association. If you can't find it, contact me and I will send you info.

Forge legs are usually 3/4" Black Pipe, bend them cold. Ask a local plumber or electricion to show you how. Blower hose is purchased from a Hardware Store, it is clothes dryer hose, 3" or 4" diameter.

Good Luck on your Journey.

Neil

[Charles R. Stevens]

You will have to clay the forge to effecently use charcoal, as in a bottom blast configuration you need a couple inches more depth. Further, unlike coal you want to use the smallest practical pile of fuel. Unlike coal, easy excess fuel will light and burn wile not adding to heating the work. 

With your forge I would consider cutting a pair or 4" angle pieces to nerrow your fire bowl and form a trench, then use a few or Adobe to deepen the pot and form a trench to contain the fuel piled over the work. Adobe is nice because you can carve it if you need to lower the stock after you fire it up. Another trick is to prop open the ash dump, sometimes you just can't crank slow enugh to satisfy charcoal.  

One of the other members has a rivet forge they have adapted wihth Adobe to burn charcoal, I just can't find the image.

[Frosty]

A person could configure their rivet forge in the same way with split fire bricks propped in a V shaped trench. I've used pieces of angle iron  down over the air grate to redirect the blast when burning charcoal. Charcoal likes side blast much better than bottom blast, a deflector isn't perfect solution but it helps. Making one from split fire brick and clay lasted a lot longer than the angle iron and made a decent charcoal fire.

Still, bottom blast forges were designed to burn coal if it's available.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

But if your going to burn charcoal, just make some mud pies and sculpt a charcoal friendly shape and go to town. You can always dig out the dirt if you ever whant to use coal. Not, keep the rain off it, ash and water draped between the dirt and the pan is very carosive 

[keith9]

swede ... I sent a line out to the Maritime Blacksmith Association about an upcoming event that's not to far away.  Thank you.

Look forward to hearing from them and I'll definitely get a membership.  Hopefully a good way to run into other quacks like me who aren't thinking mainstream.

 

A very wise woman once told me to tread lightly with my message, people who are ahead of their times wait in lonely places.  It just occurred to me that works both ways, people who are behind their times aren't necessarily overly popular with the mainstream either are they  

 

And thanks Frosty for your insight on attention to the approach of the air delivery along with some options for controlling it.  This will be another long road to success won't it.

 

Mr. Stevens that is a solid hat sir, top shelf, and I really like the forge setup in the picture.  

There's a spot by the river very near here where the kids drug back some beautiful looking clay.  There's a truckload of it there.  I always had the urge to apply some serious heat to it to see what it would do and now we will.

 

Looking forward to the family getting back from vacation.  Great to have inquisitive learning opportunities like this.  Any mainstream alternatives to preoccupy the kids minds is the way to go in my book.

[Kozzy]

On August 22, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Charles R. Stevens said:

I would recommend flexible exhaust pipe or even rigged pre made bends to mate the two. I recomend you learn to forge roses to appease the Missis

I second this recommendation.  The cost of stainless exhaust flex hose (the heavy-walled stuff) is a bit of a turn-off but it'll be a one-time buy you will never have to revisit or regret.  Just make sure you like the location of the blower relative to the forge before buying and cutting the good stuff--so maybe temporarily go with ultra cheap dryer hose until you get a feel for where you like the crank sitting relative to the forge.  

[Charles R. Stevens]

Well, that is one of our other members setups, i did not have time to find the picture I Was looking for but it gave you the general idea. The first clue as to charcoal forged iron work is aproximent ply 6" twists. So that gives you an idea what we need to aim for with charcoal. The typical side blast tuyere was 3/4-1". 3/4" schedual 40'pipe is about 7/8", and will comfortable heat 1". Bigger fires required multiple tuyere and generally (but not always) multiple bellows. i have seen primitive clay mining operations. Lots work and water go into cleaning clay for pottery, then a suitable grog is required, crushed fired clay being one of The best choices. It's interesting, 

 

[ThomasPowers]

One of the viking ship burials had a tripod in it that shows very clearly the size of the hot spot in the twisting of the tripod legs; especially as it's real wrought iron and so NOT COLD WORK FRIENDLY! As Charles mentioned, not very long at all!

[keith9]

15 hours ago, Kozzy said:

I second this recommendation.  The cost of stainless exhaust flex hose (the heavy-walled stuff) is a bit of a turn-off but it'll be a one-time buy you will never have to revisit or regret.  Just make sure you like the location of the blower relative to the forge before buying and cutting the good stuff--so maybe temporarily go with ultra cheap dryer hose until you get a feel for where you like the crank sitting relative to the forge.  

I like this as well as it would do me out.  I'll have to visit my local Wonder Muffler once I get the legs setup but paid work is getting in the way right now.  I used to have a bit of ornamental ambitions but now most all of my work is highly satisfactory once I have achieved the solid stage.  That being said would you say I would be wise to replicate the original legs with the bends (more stable?) or just put some straight pipes down to the ground and scab the cross bracing from the original set

 

I want to take my time straightening and cleaning this rig up while I gather some context on this trade.  Both Charles and Thomas' posts are a bit greek to me.  Why did I not ever sit with my grandfather when he told us kids he wanted to show us how to make chain using the forge?

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If it were mine I would replicate the bent legs. A muffler shop should be able to bend the pipe with their pipe bender or if the pipe is thin walled an electrician could do the bends with a conduit bender.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I second irondragon, strait legs would work but bent are beter, pipe can be packed with dry sand, and hot bent around form, say an old rim, or even a wet wooden form. 

TP and I were talking about how big a hot spot a typical charcoal sorce makes, wich is about 6", TP mentioned to the little mead pot tripod found at a Viking age grave site. The legs have spiral twists, each one about 6". He was also talking about whraught iron not twisting cold like modern steel. It has a woof like grain and reacts rather like a green stick when cold. 

When you start heating steel it will all become clear (or less murky anyway)

 

[keith9]

I will replicate the bent legs.  To bend the pipe I'll cap off one end, fill the area of the bend with fine sand and bend away between 2 trees or somewhere on the tractor.  Should be able to get them pretty close.  

 

Funny I never read Charles' post until now.  I just asked my dad at lunch how to go about bending the pipe without collapsing it and he suggested the sand.  Thanks for mirroring his thinking for me.

 

Charles, in your above post did you mean to say 'charcoal sorce' ?  I couldn't find anything (the google) to show me what that is?  I did try to google the viking grave site last night and couldn't find anything that showed forge legs but found lots of other interesting articles.

Thanks,

Pete

[Charles R. Stevens]

Sorry, ment fire, referring to the fire ball in the forge. 

http://viking.archeurope.info/index.php?page=oseberg-14

this little tripod is what we are talking about. Iron being expensive at the time a tryod to acualy hang a cook pot over a camp fire would be wood

[keith9]

well here I am one week after buying this old forge and I'm wondering if I shouldn't have.

 

I've done a good bit of reading on this site.  I've found the content in Grimm's recent post to be particularly helpful, thank you all on that one.

So after all that I feel as though I should have just built a simple side blast forge.  Should I bother using charcoal in this bottom blast forge that I've got now?  

 

At least I've got a decent hand blower either way

 

Thanks,

Pete

 

p.s. the lack of progress might seem lame but I'm very busy with work and life at home.  No time except to learn and ponder before I start pounding this fall.

[JHCC]

The great thing about building your own forge is that you can tailor its dimensions and function to you, your workspace, and what you're forging. A JABOD forge is cheap, easy to build, and (perhaps most importantly) easy to modify. If you're building it with salvaged materials, your only investment is in time -- and it's time that you're learning, so it's never going to be a wasted investment. 

When I switched from my old rivet forge to a JABOD, not only did I get a much more functional setup, but I was also able to turn around and sell the rivet forge for about what I'd paid for it, plus a decent leg vise. If I were you, I'd give a JABOD a try. If you prefer the forge you have, great. If not, you can hang onto that forge for as long as you like, or you can sell it. With decent legs, I imagine it would bring decent money, which you could then spend on other fun stuff.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

1 hour ago, keith9 said:

So after all that I feel as though I should have just built a simple side blast forge.

As you progress in this craft, you will find that like anvils one forge is never enough.

I would keep it and continue to refurb it and build a side draft for charcoal. Never know when the supply of coal will materialize.

[Kozzy]

1 hour ago, keith9 said:

So after all that I feel as though I should have just built a simple side blast forge.  Should I bother using charcoal in this bottom blast forge that I've got now?  

 

Do the KISS version of a refurb, just bringing it up to a reasonable and workable order.  There is no such thing as perfect, even in a side blast forge, so instead of worrying about that right now, fiddle with what you make from this one.  It'll give you a MUCH better handle on what you want later when you start looking toward improvements and this one would probably be pretty good to sell later to someone who wanted to use coal so there is no loss in bringing it back from the dead.  Heck, you might even find a good source for workable coal and change your direction once you start poking around.

Don't get hung up on getting/making the Ferrari of forges until you drive the family truckster for a while and decide what you really need/want in your final forge.  It's all a never ending learning process anyway and even imperfection can teach you things.