Need help identifying anvil

[Holly Schwartz]

Found this recently and would like to find out the maker, date of production, and value if possible. Back is broken off. 

[George Geist]

Is obviously a mouse hole from Armitage in England. Am curious as to it's history? Confederate maebe?

Georgre

[Holly Schwartz]

It came from an old house in South Carolina. I don't know much. Value? 

[ThomasPowers]

Ridden hard and put away wet; value is location dependent, which of the 100+ countries that participate here is it in?  Rural or city?

That is a Mouse Hole anvil, most likely 19th century---which is not considered old for anvils, pre 1800 starts getting a premium on age.

It is in very rough condition.  I have an anvil similar to that, a Powell, with the heel broken off and the face in *MUCH* better condition, I paid US$40 for it before the recent bubble.  

Remember that ANY grinding on the face reduces value as the hardened face of an anvil is relatively thin and once it's gone you have scrapmetal.  Wire brushing is ok...and Robb Gunther has a very good anvil repair method described many place on the web.

If it's been in a fire the face may have lost it's temper and be "not in using condition"  Like automobiles non usable wrecks sell for  a lot less than running cars.

[Judson Yaggy]

On 8/2/2017 at 7:08 PM, George Geist said:

 Confederate maybe?

As has been discussed here many times before the Union anvil busting is a myth.  I believe Thomas Powers even knows the guy that started the rumor as a joke.

[George Geist]

11 minutes ago, Holly Schwartz said:

It came from an old house in South Carolina. I don't know much. Value? 

Value just depends as Mr Powers said. 

People give me an argument every time I mention this but I'll go ahead and mention it anyway. In the latter stages of the civil war Union forces destroyed and vandalized all southern blacksmith shops. While doing so they did their best to wreck the anvil as a top priority.

I'm replying from my phone and can't see locations so was betting it probably confederate. No way to know if that was what happened to it but if so it would certainly be interesting from a historic perspective. 

George

[John McPherson]

Just the words "MOUSE HOLE" puts it between about 1780 and 1795. Original weight 1*1*24 translates to 112+28+24 or 164 pounds when whole.

I would not personally pay more than $50 for one in that condition, but the world seems to have lost its mind, you could get much more for that lump on Craigslist.

 

Thank you Internet, for continuing to spread disinformation without a source. Is there a Snopes on this subject, so we can finally put this to rest?

I have lived my whole life in the South, 60+ years, amidst folks who lived and breathed minutia about "The War of Northern Aggression", and never once was the topic of Yankee anvil abuse mentioned until a Virginia antique dealer rust hustler tried to RAISE the asking price of his worthless scrap by trotting out this claptrap in the late 1990's.

If the story was even half true, ONLY THE HORNS WOULD BE BROKEN, never the heel. And they would have been repaired or replaced at the first opportunity.

Horns and heels are weak welds on old wrought anvils. The South was poor to begin with, and destitute for over a half century after the war, so everything got used past the point that a prosperous society would tolerate. As the face of this old relic will attest.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Holly, glad to have you. I hope you're planning on trading your anvil up because you need the heal and don't want to make a bridge. There aren't enough Ladysmiths out there and we'll be more than happy to help you become the artist blacksmith you really are down deep. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Welcome to IFI, @Holly Schwartz -- and welcome to how easily we get into (friendly, I assure you!) arguments. Your anvil is in pretty rough shape, but after a good wire brushing, you'll be surprised at how much you'll be able to do with it while you're looking for a better replacement.

By the way, Josh at the Fisher and Norris Anvil Museum (aka @njanvilman) has a couple of examples of anvils with the horns broken off and reattached with U-bolts and brackets. If he sees this, maybe he could give us a photo.

[njanvilman]

As requested, here is a photo of two "repaired" early anvils.  But this only works if you have both pieces, which it does not appear that you do.

Please do not repeat the MYTH of broken anvils from the south.  Pure rubish.

Your anvil has had a long hard life.  If you are going to use it as an anvil, you would be best off finding a complete one in better condition.  If you are looking to sell it, I would be interested in displaying it in the Fisher & Norris Factory Museum.  PM me if you want to discuss this more.

Please check out my Fisher & Norris Factory Museum on FB too.

 

[JHCC]

Or better yet, in person!

[ThomasPowers]

NJ: Are you collecting a "wall of shame" of abused anvils too?

[Holly Schwartz]

That wasn't very nice. I came to this site for help, not ridicule. 

[ThomasPowers]

Sorry it wasn't directed at you, but NJAnvilman who seems to be collecting a number of abused anvils, I have a few myself that I have on my "wall of shame".  I use them in my classes to demonstrate what can happen if you mess up.  My most "infamous" ones are a Peter Wright missing everything over the waist and a Vulcan that is ridge backed and had the horn broken off showing extreme casting flaws; my Powell missing the heel *was* abused but still is a great working anvil. It sees a lot of use by my students as I send them to it when they want to use heavy hammers but have less hammer control than I would like.

What you have is an abused anvil, res ipsa loquitur!   Since you are not responsible for its abuse why are you upset? Denying the truth is not nice either.

[njanvilman]

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

NJ: Are you collecting a "wall of shame" of abused anvils too?

I only have these two of creatively repaired early anvils.  Repairs made them usable again for many years.  I sold off all of my other distressed anvils for their wrought iron content last year at QS.  I keep interesting worn anvils for display.  No shame in their leading a long hard life, and now resting in the museum.

BTW, the left repaired on in the above picture is also a Mouse Hole anvil.

 

[ThomasPowers]

I saw one at Quad-state one year that had a forged toroid that fit over the broken horn and had two straps forge welded to the toroid that then went under the heel with a cross bar and threaded ends for large nuts.  In one of my books they did a repair by cutting a dovetail in the broken off piece and anvil to mount them together again!

[Charcold]

That dovetail repair method sounds incredibly interesting! 

[John McPherson]

Holly, no one is ridiculing you. You asked for historical information and value, and I answered you in the first two lines of my response.

I have a 2000 model year Ford Expedition, with the deluxe Eddie Bauer package. Cost new: $40K. 18 years later, 260K miles, busted windshield, leaky sunroof, ripped leather seats, rust spots, wheezy engine, 12 miles per gallon, etc.  5 years ago I purchased it for $4K. Now worth: $2K if I am lucky. Which is what I have put into it in repairs in the last year.

It is as much at the end of it's life as your anvil is. Sorry that you did not win the Antiques Roadshow lottery, but there it is.

 

I do have a beef with some of the members who love to repeat nonsense. The rest of my diatribe was a rebuttal to that load of horse poo that has dogged the internet for 20 years.

[George Geist]

17 hours ago, John McPherson said:

.I do have a beef with some of the members who love to repeat nonsense. The rest of my diatribe was a rebuttal to that load of horse poo that has dogged the internet for 20 years.

Mr McPherson,

I fully realize that anvils are sacred and holy objects worthy of being a footstool for Mother Mary Herself. I realize that you guys firmly believe that an army could lay waste to an entire region, burn a major city to the ground and in general commit mayhem of an unimaginable scale all the while not daring to touch a single anvil due to it's exalted position as a sacrosanct object.

Fact of the matter is that info could be found in books written before I came around. I learned about it when I first started and I've been around beating iron for 40 years. Considerably before our former Vice President ever thought about inventing the internet. Since you and others are so agitated over a historical event not reported on Fox News or by Walter Concrete. I'll challenge you guys to prove me wrong. Have at it. Proving a negative makes for lots of fun. If you can do that you'll convince me and I'll shut up about it.

If not, I might be liable to go onto my profile page and remove my location to really annoy you guys

George

[JHCC]

46 minutes ago, George Geist said:

Fact of the matter is that info could be found in books written before I came around. I learned about it when I first started and I've been around beating iron for 40 years.

George, it would be great if you could provide a citation or a title of one of those books, so the rest of us could check it out for ourselves. Thanks much.

[JHCC]

FYI, there's no version of the "Yankees destroying Confederate anvils" story in Bealer's The Art of Blacksmithing, and it's very much the kind of thing that he would have repeated (perhaps uncritically) if he'd heard it. I suspect that if it had been circulating when he wrote TAoB in the late Sixties, it would probably be in there.

(And yes, I know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but it does add weight to the "improbable" side of the scale.) 

[Tractorlounge]

I am retired and decided to learn blacksmithing so I bought an anvil. It is British because it is marked 1   0   17.  I know this equates to 129 pounds.  I am wondering if anyone can identify this anvil for me.   I can make out "SOLID ANVIL" but can not decipher what is above that. Here are several pictures. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I just signed up for forge iron. Great site!

[Judson Yaggy]

Wilkinson.  The "crossed hot dogs" are the usual indicator.

[Tractorlounge]

Thanks for your help. Any info on Wilkinson?