Malice9610 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I have tried to do this about a dozen times, and every time I was met with abject failure. forgewelding has been the bane of my existence for the last year or so. But I finally appear to have a grasp on it. I welded this billet up last weekend. its 5160 and 15N20, I think it was 10 layers to begin with. I was told that hose clamps can be used to secure a billet if you lack a welder. So I decided to give this a try, and that did help, but I suspect most of my success comes from letting the metal heat properly. I kind of played a game with it, I put the billet in the fire, and drank a beer, once I finished the beer, I pulled the steel out, fluxed it, and flipped it and put it back in, and then had another beer. Every time I touched the steel, I drank another beer. When I finally went to make a forgewelding pass, the hose clamp popped right off by the 3rd or so hit, but the whole billet stayed stuck perfect. Going to draw it out, cut it, and some clean 15n20 and restack it, I want two pieces, one small one of a lower layer count, and one i cut and restack a couple times for a high layer count. And now I need to order more 15N20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 You must drink a heck of a lot faster than I do. Soak times are important; but oxidation over time is also an issue. I generally have my beer *after* I've stopped working at the forge and am doing clean up in the shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Malice9610 said: And now I need to order more 15N20. And more beer if you're going to assure continued success at forge welding. Don't mess with a proven practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Drink ice tea, save the beer for later. I don't care how nice the billet it it isn't worth a trip to the ER or a visit by the FD. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It didn't come through, but my comment was heavy with sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice9610 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Well to be honest Frosty, our beer here in Utah is only 3.2% so its not even real beer. You can only buy " real beer " from the state run liquor stores here, and a 6 pack of something good will run you 12 bucks easy. As for the billet, About half of it forged solid, the other half ( towards the handle piece ) has about a 1.5 inch split right down the center of it, So right now its sitting in vinegar, and then I will grind it clean, heat it up and spread it open, grind the crap out of it, and then attempt to close the weld with some more 15N20 so im not trying to weld 5160 to itself. Originally it started off as a stack about 1.5 inches thick and slightly over 2 inches long per piece by 1.25 inches wide, the crack didnt show up till I started trying to draw the billet out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 They do make non-alcoholic beer, for those of us who don't imbibe (whether at all, or in the forge). Ice tea is an acceptable substitute, although plain water will do fine. (Just remember: don't confuse your beverage with your quenchant!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Malice: I'm not much of a drinker myself and haven't had a "love in a canoe" american urine colored fizz water beer in I don't know how long. Yeah, good beer is expensive if you don't brew it yourself. Happily Alaska sort of had to start allowing micro breweries so you can stop by a true ale house and have a mug of the house brew. Full rich tasty and better than half a meal. Some is even bottled and in liquor stores. I don't do a lot of welding but when I do I sand the joint surfaces and flux the joints cold before closing it up. Then I flux it again as soon as it's hot enough to melt the flux. I do what I can to keep any scale from forming at all. I soak thick billets at below welding temp for more time than necessary to heat through then I turn up the fire. Once fluxed it isn't being exposed to oxygen so scale can't form and carbon can't burn out. I set the weld with the pein on my rounding hammer starting at the center of the weld and working towards the ends. At the fold if it's a folded weld. The idea is to drive any loose bits out not trap them. I don't usually have a lot of fireworks or loud pops like I did in the early days. No, it doesn't always work, nothing I do does. Got the sarcasm John, wasn't taking issue with it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 When using a solid fuel forge to weld billets I like to heat up the forge nice and hot and then stick in the billet and turn off the air and go get a drink or use the facilities and let the billet heat up to fluxing temp in a totally reducing atmosphere. When I get back I turn the air on---well start cranking and pull the billet, wire brush, flux and back into the fire. I run the lams in the billet vertically and turn 180 every set number of cranks till I see the orange green borax disassociation; hold for a couple of cranks more and pull and set the weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: ... the orange green borax disassociation... This, I have not heard of. Tell me more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 When you get up to forge welding temps in a solid fuel forge the flames will turn slightly orange greenish if you are using borax as a flux. It's one of the tattletales for welding below sparking temps. Very handy if you are welding in an open fire rather than a cave fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Very interesting. I shall have to pay attention to this, although it may be slightly complicated by the fact that my safety goggles are a welder's shade 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 The orange green borax "flame" shows in a propane forge's dragon's breath as well. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcusdad Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Save the beer till you finish with the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice9610 Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 6/13/2017 at 11:04 AM, ThomasPowers said: When using a solid fuel forge to weld billets I like to heat up the forge nice and hot and then stick in the billet and turn off the air and go get a drink or use the facilities and let the billet heat up to fluxing temp in a totally reducing atmosphere. When I get back I turn the air on---well start cranking and pull the billet, wire brush, flux and back into the fire. I run the lams in the billet vertically and turn 180 every set number of cranks till I see the orange green borax disassociation; hold for a couple of cranks more and pull and set the weld. I am going to give that a try this week when I fix my current billet I have sitting on my bench, I hadnt thought of that and its a brilliant idea!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 6/13/2017 at 10:48 AM, JHCC said: (Just remember: don't confuse your beverage with your quenchant!) Funny thing. Not long ago a guy with a YouTube channel called Green Beetle made what he called the 'Merica knife. He quenched it in beer and his scales were made of a clear acrylic with bacon on one scale and a French fry on the other. He actually does some really interesting work. Concerning the Orange/Green flame...being color impaired is a serious challenge in blacksmithing. I wasn't able to see the color per se, but I noticed a "change". Not sure if I was just lucky or if I saw something...but the weld took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I was originally taught to weld in a cave fire and look at the billet and weld when it looked like "butter melting in the sun" and you could see the surface was liquid. This is hard on the eyes!!!!! and doesn't work with open fires; so I trained myself to work with different "tells". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice9610 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Well I can happily report that I was able to fix the billet. I cut it in half right before the spot where the failed weld started. once I had it in half, the failed weld pieces split right apart, I ground everything clean, cut a few more pieces of 15n20, and restacked the billet. Then took it out and threw it in the forge. Welds took on the first try, and after a few more welding passes to make sure it was all solid I started drawing it out. And for some reason its not allowing me to attach the last of the photos, so I will do another comment for that. Here is where things stand now. Its about .250 thick and fairly consistent thickness along it. There is a half inch or so at the tip that will have to be cut off as it has a massive inclusion in it where two pieces were not exactly lined up, Right now I am trying to decide if I want to file some grooves into it on both sides and go for a ladder pattern with a goal of grinding this down to about 1/8th inch thick at the spine, and then with the stretching the grooves would give it, I might gain a bit more length because as it sits right now, its about a 4 inch blade. Will have to think on it, I have this piece of Sindora Burl that has been sitting on my bar for the last 6 months now, just waiting for the perfect knife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice9610 Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well, its not spectacular.... But its certainly a good start....... here it is all grinded out, going to heat treat this tomorrow, need to get a couple more to HT point so im not wasting charcoal on 2 blades only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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