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Power Hammer Junkies?


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Hello all,

My first posting here! Also trying out posting a picture.

This is (I hope) a scanned picture of Franz Brauner loading the LG25 I just bought from him down in Racine WI. This was in the late '80's I think. I paid $600 for it. Not a steal but not a bad price at the time.

I have a small shop in southeast Minnesota. I find the LG25 to be pretty near perfect for me. I rebuilt the hammer when I got it and it runs real well. It's not a Nazel but I think the LG hammers are under rated by some. But they are pretty easy to sell so I guess there are some that like them.

Hope this works.

hammer02.jpg


Edit: photo added

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Bob, to post an image in your reply you have to put after the url with no spaces, and the forum does the rest. The best size for the image is 400 pixels wide. Much greater than 500 and you stretch the forum causing it to extend past the edge of the page to the right. If in doubt just post the url and the admin will fix things for you. You did it right. :wink:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Maybe you misread my post? I believe I said the mechanicals were least costly and listed the same advantages of for them as you did, so I think that puts us in agreement. If my post besmudged mechanicals it was not my intent. And they don't have much stroke length so tooling has to be quite compact. Pounding Out the Profits by Freund is an excelllent book to read for a humbling education.

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I have been quietly watching this post and been wondering with some amusement. Am I alone in the universe? Let me gently ask. Do only I want the 25# little Giant? I, as of yet, do not own a power hammer. I, Sir, am the hobbiest. I represent those that do this thing we do for the simple joy of doing it. We see something that others have made that we can make for ourselves and prefer to have something homemade. We enjoy the history of the craft and art. We enjoy learning about the ancient ones who the stories turn into gods. We work to make gifts and toys and tools and on the rare occasion we see a dollar come into the hobby shop, we think to ourselves, I am akin to the ancient ones. But as we work alone with our hammer and tongs, and sore shoulders and hands and feet and whatever else the real world has dealt us, we think If only I had the romantic and beutifull Little Giant to do some of this work for me. As I said, I have not owned one. But I have worked many a hammer in friends shops. And I have to say the 25# Little Giant is an art piece to me. I don't work big stuff or hammer for a living. I just want save some hammer strokes. So as you move on to bigger meaner, car crushing, fire breathing, 10,000 lb. impliments of distruction, can I have your 25#er that you don't seem to want to get rid of?. Just wanted to share some thoughts. :wink: Brad

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Brad:
Advice on power hammers applies regardless your level of expertise or professional/hobbiest status. "Amateur" in anything simply means someone does something solely for the love of it, and not for a primary source of income. Most on this board are "amateurs", which reflects the general population of blacksmiths at large.

The main reasons for warning against the 25 lb LG is that it is only worth having if you get a really GREAT deal on one. They aren't worth a lot of money as a hammer, yet they typically cost $1,000 and even $2,000. Most of us feel that money toward a hammer could be better spent. If you find one you like, go for it.

Notwithstanding, Bob S. just said he bought and liked his 25 lb LG. Back up four posts and read what he had to say.

Many impressive folks started with a 25 lb LG and were glad to have it, including Josh Greenwood who is most famous now for his fairly large converted steam hammers.

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Ed. Thanks for the advice. My post was pointed at no one person or statement. I have a tendency to wax poetic. I deaply love the art for what it is. I have always felt that the old ones, working as hard as the did, must have appeared as a child on Christmas morning the first time they saw a power hammer work. As for the cost, I just haven't spent the money. Forget as we may that most people will not spend for work but will for play. I know for I'm no different. Hesitate to buy the better wood chisles but think not twice at spending 2000 for some time with the familly on vacation. Fair trade. As the hobbiest it's just a matter of when that time presents itself. How many of us have spent thousands for an ATV or bass boat or golf clubs. If pounding iron is your idea of fun then the toy just has to be. Mmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe next year.... :wink:

Happy Hollidays Everyone
Stay warm,
Brad

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Many years ago, I bought a 25 LG in pieces for $150. I put it back together, made a few modifications per the Kern book and ran it for a long time. I owned my 100 lb Beaudry at the same time so had drawing dies on the LG and flat dies on the big hammer. It was great to pull down the stock with the small hammer and flatten out the bumps with the big one. However, in the need for "the next thing", I traded it for a brand new tandem axle trailer. The bigger hammer does all I want but I certainly would not turn down a small LG. In fact, although I love big hammers, I think a 50 lb mechanical is a very good all-round size for the average hobby smith.

Conversely, as Ed stated, is $XXXX.XX amount of dollars better spent on an old LG or a new make? That question must be left to the individual smith - since each person should know their own mechanical aptitude and ability to either fix an old hammer or spend time forging on a new one. The old ones have "character" but the question is whether you can fix it and/or keep it running. I had access to a lathe and mill at the time so wasn't worried if I ran into machining problems but not everyone has that luxury...to each his own. :wink:

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I am new to the forum, I have been smithing for about a year but I have been a welder and fabricator for the better part of 20. The kids finally grew up and life slowed down enough to take a little time for myself.
Anyway :roll:
I have built a dual air hammer. One side is 24# and the other is 65#. It still needs a little refining but I enjoy using it. Like I said I'm relatively new at smithing. Once I figure how this forum works I might try to post a picture.

JWB

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just showing off a couple of my toys, if you haven't been out to my website yet to see them , here they are...

The homebuilt 75#-older pic, she is now under roof and is still a very much used tool. All of the power work needed for large stock and for small stock that comes from the coal forge is done on this one. 7 feet tall. Not shown is the new and improved anvil and base plate, that added about 400 lbs and makes her more efficient and less bouncy.

power%20hammer%201%20thumb.jpg


The Fairbanks 25#-another old pic, she is also under roof, and is now inside the main shop area and is our most used hammer. She is connected to the line shaft that also runs a turn of the last century mill. Even with her funky repairs she works well and accurately, and we are collecting the parts to build a new anvil for her and her little quirks will dissapear.

fairbankshammer.jpg

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frogvalley
I have finaly got some useable pictures of my powerhammer. They ended up to big to be inserted so I will have to link them.
The first picture is from the front-
1FULLFRONT.jpg

I have nine images altogether to list.
2RIGHTFRONTHALF.jpg

3LEFTFRONTHALF.jpg


4FULLBACK.jpg


5RIGHTSLIDE.jpg


6LEFTHAMMER.jpg


7RIGHTHAMMER.jpg


8LEFTQUARTER.jpg

and finally

9FOOTPEDAL.jpg


As you can see(if I 've done this right) it's nothing fancy and I'm sure I will make improvements as I go. Who knows it might even get a coat of paint :lol:
There is only one footpedal to control both hammers. The switch on the top right switches from left to right, thus avoiding accidently firing both hammers.
I have two 2-1/2" bore cylinders on the bench. One is for the heavy hammer. The small bore cylinder that is on both sides now is about right for the smaller hammer.
There are no bushings in the slides and nothing complicated about it, It does tend to want to walk across the floor in a days time.

It's ugly but it works and everything has been scrounged all I have is my time and labor,

Let me know what you think :mrgreen:

JWB

Edit: Use the BBcodes to place the images directly into the forum.
Edit:Resized images :?

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JWB-

Very cool. Interesting way to handle the "weight" of the larger hammer. It looks like you suspended it outside the center "bearing". BTW do you have oil holes in the columns?

I can't exactly tell in the photos, how large and what type of dies are you using? Flat, convex or a combo for both drawing and general working?

What are the anvils made of?

What is the stroke?

A rubber pad on a clean concrete floor will help with the walking issue, or drill holes in the floor and use a wooden or rubber pad. The green hammer of mine has a wooden base and still it walks a bit. Anvil weight is a big factor in where the forces go once the hammer comes down,

My fairbanks hammer has an independent foundation (most of the shop has gravel and dirt floor) 10 inches thick concrete, with a special wooden block under the independent anvil.

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frogvalley

The center bearing is more of a loose fit guide. There are no grease fittings. I haven't seen any problems yet.
The heavy hammer weight was designed (cobbled) to use what I had available but It seems to work.

The Dies are 1 set of 3/4" fuller dies and 1 set of 2-1/2" flat. They are both mild steel. I have been looking at other dies and I think a combination flat/fuller would be useful. I have also been thinking of some "spring" tools (swages, headers and veining to start the list).

The anvils are 5" sch 80 Pipe filled with sand and a section of 2"x 2" bar stock welded flush with the top and then capped with 1" plate. The baseplate is 1" plate. The center collum is 6" channel welded in a box. The top piece is 6' I beam.

The rams are threaded directly into the hammers. I'm not sure how that will work in the long run. But they've seen several long days and haven't broke yet. The useable stroke is 6" with redesigned dies it will probably be about 8"-9".

I threw it together and in all honesty since I got it working I've been to busy playing with it to finish it (BAD habit of mine) :lol: I am running it continously with a single stage 5hp compressor. However if I go to the larger cylinder on the heavy hammer I don't know if it will keep up.

The hammer would never hold up to commercial use without serious refinement but it does well for me at this stage. I will get some better pictures this weekend(smaller & brighter-Kinda like my brother) :lol: and post them.

One question, what is a clean concrete floor? :P

JWB

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Metalmaster-

What is the beam made of? Is it a spring? I have some experience with those types of hammers if you need info. I have mine setup with parts of two sets of Jeep CJ5 springs. Mine seems to top out at around a couple of hundred hits per minute, any more than that and it turns too fast for the hammer to reach bottom and therefore only does so every other hit. 182bpm is what i have it set for and it works great.

Whats the ram weight? What was the original machine? Is that a geared motor? what horsepower? what dies are those that I see on your website.

Blah blah, always asking questions I am.

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JWB-

Clean=recently swept clear of large chunks

For my shop clean = freshly raked gravel

The Dies are 1 set of 3/4" fuller dies and 1 set of 2-1/2" flat. They are both mild steel.


I would face those with hard facing rod built up to 3/16" or 1/4" thick and grind to shape. Works great on all my dies.
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  • 1 month later...

Frogvalley,

took me a while to get back on this, the original machine was a wood router, the ram weighs about 75 pounds, is a piece of 3 X 3 X 30 inch steel, the motor is a 3/4 HP bolted to a 10-1 geared box, between 75 & 80 bpm, the spring is from an old truck, couldnt tell ya what kind, there are 4 dies that came with it, 2 flat dies, 1 fuller, and 1 with about a 20 degree angle, dont know what its called, i did make a set of dies for it combination flat/fuller dies, havent had a chance to use them yet, still trying to get my shop organized before i start any more projects, i can get better pictures if ya want to see anything up close just let me know, it works great, maybe one day i'll paint it

Ron Smith

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