Johnnyreb338 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Ran across an article about forging a Japanese sword in which they used a technique called blooming, said it was the old way to do wootz style steel. Looks like a lot of work to me. I would like to try it once just to mark it off my I done it list. Has anyone tried it and are the rewards worth the trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticallySharp Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 I did it once.with blue steel avable in today's market not worth the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 It sounds like you are referring to a bloomery, the type of furnace used to smelt iron. I've read about traditional Japanese techniques where they take iron sand and smelt it into a semi solid chunk of mid/low carbon steel. The iron collects carbon from the charcoal being burnt. The bloom (semi solid chunk) is porous and impure, which necessitated the repeated welding, cutting, folding, rinse and repeat, in order to make it more homogenous, and to work out the slag and porosity. It is definitely a lot of work, but I agree, I would like to do it myself as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Good morning friends. Thanks for the replies. That is a fine little skinner tactically sharp. I kinda figured that today's steel is far superior to what could be produced by ancient smelting methods. Today's steel is more pure and refined. The only thing that I can see that made it better was the heart and soul that went into making such a piece. The community basically had to come together and contribute something that day, men gathered wood, dirt supplies, women cooking, bringing water etc... everyone had to take turns on the bellows, pouring in the mixture etc.. no telling how much ale was required. Then the time it took to refine such a piece with primitive tools must be mind blowing. By the time it was finished the blade had a spiritual soul to it and to its owner. Nowadays we go out to the shed, cut off a piece of spring steel. Spend a few hours heating and beating, 2 more hours grinding, and whala we have a blade. But it has no soul...... Just my thoughts for this beautiful Sunday morning. Friendship, kinship and sweat are the ingredients missing from today's steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Any blade you make will still have a "soul" to it. The steel was still wrought by your hand, the design created by your mind, and the beauty shaped by your persistance. The amount of blood and sweat that goes into it is strictly up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 If you're making things without a soul you're doing it wrong, Reb. Even then it's not necessarily a bad tool, I carry an Old Timer cattleman's pocket knife all the time. Of course it's soul comes from how sharp I keep it. Everything I make has a little of me in it, flaws, mistakes and all. There are groups that make bloomery iron and steel. Find a group local to you and see if you can get in on it. Expect to be a bellows pumper the first time or two, there is a LOT more to it than hard, sweaty work. Grading the bloom and refining it is the last in a long list of steps. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanternnate Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 23 minutes ago, Frosty said: Everything I make has a little of me in it Some of the things I make have big ole pieces of me, oh wait you were being metaphorical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 minute ago, lanternnate said: Some of the things I make have big ole pieces of me, oh wait you were being metaphorical Me? Naw I tend to leave bits of me all over the place. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Bloomery steel is nothing like wootz steel. The japanese process uses repeated folding and welding to lower the carbon content while wootz tends to have crazy carbon contents. Wootz is a crucible process then using repeated thermal cycling to manipulate the carbides. Are you close enough to go to the Batson Bladesmithing Symposium & Knife Show? You should find a lot of folks with experience in both methodologies there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Good morning Mr Thomas The batson blade show would be about 140 miles from where I live. I looked the venu up on line and it looks like the are a lot of things to look at. Might be worth a weekend road trip. Will have to check when the next 1 is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Out here 140 miles is how far you'd drive to get lunch! Blacksmithing/Bladesmithing is something where face to face can really speed up your passage through the learning curve. Unfortunately there are a lot of urban myths out there involving bladesmithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Yes sir there are. I would like to learn the art of mixing my own ingredients in a crucible and making a ingant, then working it down into a presentable knife. That would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 And not building a bloomery and starting with iron ore, make the steel and then work it into usable stock to forge a knife blade from? (and ingot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 Although the bloomery would be a blast, good friends, good ale, fire. Shoot what could go wrong. Problem is im not sure mississippi mud would be the best source of dirt to be trying to burn iron ore out of. Although probably a 25' circle around my workshop would probably be a motherload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Yes scale from around the anvil is a high grade ore---magnetite. You can also source it as a pollution control material. The state to your east has a long history of iron smelting with ore coal and limestone being available in Northern Alabama... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 If Johnnyreb338 smelted a "bloom cake", would that be a johnnycake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanternnate Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 8 hours ago, JHCC said: If Johnnyreb338 smelted a "bloom cake", would that be a johnnycake? If it was just a small bloom cake, would it be a little rebbie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 14 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Yes scale from around the anvil is a high grade ore---magnetite. This is why I've been collecting my scale (and grinding powder) for quite a while. I have a few pounds of it saved up and I would really like to smelt it back together... Some day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 10 hours ago, lanternnate said: If it was just a small bloom cake, would it be a little rebbie? Oh lord you guys are killing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Grinding swarf is generally pretty contaminated; I'd go with straight scale myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 6:09 PM, ThomasPowers said: Grinding swarf is generally pretty contaminated; I'd go with straight scale myself. Just saw your post Thomas. Even if I run a magnet over it multiple times to "purify" it? I've read about how if you sand a lot near where you picked the powder up (which I do) the aluminum oxide could get mixed in there. Same with the silicon carbide off of grinding wheels, but I figured a magnet would pick up only the steel and leave that stuff behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 If you use a magnet, put it in a plastic bag first. That way, you can clean the magnet off just by pulling it out of the bag. If you turn the bag inside-out first, turning it right-side-out will detach the material from the magnet and put it inside the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 JHCC Now that's a good idea! Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Will W. said: JHCC Now that's a good idea! Thanks for the tip. Not original to me, but you're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Yes, that would help but there is still contamination from "smeared" surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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