Comments on this forge's design?

[Dom]

While asking questions about other models in another thread, another member suggested I take a look at Front Step Forge's Blacksmith Gas Forge.  link removed

From what I've learned from Mikey and Frosty (and don't hesitate to correct me if I got it wrong), the burner design doesn't seem bad as they are straight and the placement is not straight down but on the side. It looks pretty roomy and the price is definitely good at 765$ CAD with hose, regulator and fittings. FSF measured it going to 2450F which was the limit before the destruction of their type k thermocouple.

However, the only thing that limits the openings are the 12 fire bricks that come with it. And there is no information on the lining

All in all, I'm still leaning for a Chile or a Diamondback but the FSF gas forge is cheaper and seems to have some better features than some other brand (mighty forge, NC Tool Co).

Any comments, advice, suggestions or correction are welcome.

[VainEnd84]

The wool lining is 8# kaowool rated to 2600 degrees (rebranded to a different name because Canada) and it is coated with an itc-100 like coating, that's what I was told at any rate, I know there it a hard refractory cement cast on the bottom but I know nothing about what type of refractory it is.

[Mikey98118]

There are many things I see that could be improved outside of the forge, and there is little effort required to replace those things (fire bricks) over time. It is equally obvious that that forge is getting plenty hot enough inside, even now. I don't think you need us to decide for you, do you?

[Frosty]

Ditto Mikey. It's hot, you can afford it. Is it large enough to do what you want for now?

What's happening now is you've been reading and pondering so long you're beginning to expect problems and not finding any makes you worry. Normal normal, a project that doesn't have something go wrong makes me jumpy too. After a while problem solving becomes so ingrained we feel like were missing something if there are no problems.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Yes; exactly.

Dom, what we are trying not to have to say is YES, the answer is YES; as in stopped thinking and start doing already!

[Dom]

Thanks VainEnd84 for the info, I'll give Front Step Forge a call during the week. I'll start rooting for the Oilers till the end of the series.  

Frosty, Mikey, I understand your intention and sorry if I came as someone who wants to be spoon fed all the answers to my questions.
You guys have such a deeper understanding on the subject than me and this being a public forum I did not see a reason not to benefit from that experience and ask
if someone saw something wrong (or good) with a particular forge model.

I understand that this might not be the kind of discussion which is the most interesting for you guys.
Maybe in a couple of years I'll be able to have a more informed discussion about advanced burner design with you.

Cheers!

[Ricko13]

Hey Dom,

Can you keep me posted on the cost with delivery to Quebec? I'd be curious to see, since that looks like a very decent price for a forge. My one burner forge needs a big brother...

Cheers,

-R

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

Well, for less than $200.00 you can build your own, and have a better forge.

Have you read the attachment, Build a Gas Forge, at the Forge Supplies page on www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com?

Let me know if I can help you.

Wayne

 

[Dom]

10 hours ago, Ricko13 said:

Hey Dom,

Can you keep me posted on the cost with delivery to Quebec? I'd be curious to see, since that looks like a very decent price for a forge. My one burner forge needs a big brother...

Cheers,

-R

Sure will Ricko13.

I've asked them various questions and will post all their answers here for posterity

56 minutes ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith said:

Well, for less than $200.00 you can build your own, and have a better forge.

Have you read the attachment, Build a Gas Forge, at the Forge Supplies page on www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com?

Let me know if I can help you.

Wayne

 

Thanks Wayne. I've heard nothing but good things about you and your business. If I ever go for building my own forge, I will be sure to let you know.

[Dom]

Here's the reply I got when I asked more details about the forge's interior and shipping (everything in CAD of course).

Quote

My forges are a double layer of 2600 degree ceramic fibre . Over the bottom two thirds of the inside: is cast in place refractory concrete which is very flux resistant .  I have rigidizer for the blanket but don't apply it in advance. ( I would suggest you apply it when the forge has a place to sit) . I have ITC-100 but just provide it as a service (it's just over 139$ a pint cost)
I shipped a forge to Chateaugay Quebec ( without bricks ) for 170$ . The bricks might double that as they are 100lbs by themselves .

So it is still a good option but there is the added cost of the bricks, refractory coating and possibly the rigidizer (not a 100% sure if he meant that it comes with it but not applied or if it's an extra cost).

[Mikey98118]

If you built your own forge, one of the many things you could control would be shipping costs; by purchasing some materials locally, choosing only light weight materials in others, and by choosing between everyday items at no cost for the steel shell. Bottom line is there are very good reasons most of us build our own forges. Pick your poison; it probably won't kill you after all

[Frosty]

Dom: You've painted yourself into the corner of fussing over endless details till you just aren't going to get it done. Do YOU want to spend the money for a forge built by someone else? Having other people do for you costs. In more than money.

Are you seriously asking US if it's a good option to buy and ship bricks across an international border? By now you SHOULD know what Mike and I think. Unfortunately you've convinced yourself building a forge is an insurmountable task.

I'm not self help guru, watch Doctor Phil or something. Buying a forge for 4x what you could build one for is up to you. If you're so sure you just can't do it yourself YOU have left YOURSELF no choice. 

Honest, a few hundred bucks one way or the other for a piece of equipment you're going to use for a couple decades is truly insignificant. However convincing yourself you just can NOT overcome such minor problems will last you a lifetime.

Blacksmiths are doers, not fretters. If you gotta fret over something fret about how far to draw a temper on a chisel or something usefull.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Ricko13]

Dom,

I was in your exact shoes for a while, fretting (nice choice of word Frosty, I'm using it) over every little detail of the forges on sale versus making one. It got so bad I had spreadsheets of cost / data / etc and driving myself silly, even before going with propane I was doing the same analysis with going with Natural Gas (which in the end is a pain I'm glad I avoided for now).

I was lucky and got a good deal on a very small forge that helped me get my feet wet in understanding how they work. I have since then ordered all the pieces to make an even better one (just received the Kaowool this afternoon, and some fumed silica from the UK a day ago, all at decent prices). Next is just to find a propane tank and merge it to two Frosty burners I'll be making (thanks Frosty).

Here's a quick list of things I went through, and hope it helps you:

Steel piping (for the burners) was oddly very hard to find for me in my area, but thankfully Home Hardware lets you order online and deliver to a store near you. I even ordered the mig tips etc from there, it's conviniant - www.homehardware.ca

Kaowool - there's two sources in our area that you could use - https://tuckerspotteryeshop.com/ or http://sial-canada.com/en/produitsDetails.php?nProductId=4530 - they both deliver. I used Tucker and got it under 2 days.

The fittings to connect everything, the best is to find a local propane supplier / expert (I used Propane Outaouais, very helpful people, but they are local to me). Because we are in Canada, it's regulation to keep the tanks OUTSIDE, so they helped me out with getting long hoses etc. Heres information on that - http://propane.ca/safety-regulation/ - and by province: http://propane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/CPA_Fact-Sheet_Regulatory-Authorities-Having-Jurisdiction_August-2016.pdf

The rigidizer, I did a bit of research and found some Hydrophilic (NOT HYDROPHOBIC) Fumed Silica on ebay from the UK for very cheap (it's VERY light, you should pay almost no shipping). I will need to understand a bit more how to mix it all up, but I have this wonderful forum to help me.

For the refracting cement and ITC stuff - I just went with Wayne Coe - very helpful guy and the price was decent - http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Forge_Supplies.html

As for fire bricks, Reno Depot, Home Depot, Rona... they all have it... they are about 6$ and will work for doors (they won't last too long though, but it's a good start).

If I was to estimate how much I spent so far (and I was not really DEAL hunting here), I would say I'm in about $300 - $400. So a few extra hundred for a premade? That's really the choice you have to make, spend a few extra hundred to get something that may work for you, or spend a few less and make whatever you want and learn a great deal in the process.

Again, the offer is on the table if you need any local help.

Cheers,

-R

[Dom]

5 hours ago, Frosty said:

Dom: You've painted yourself into the corner of fussing over endless details till you just aren't going to get it done. Do YOU want to spend the money for a forge built by someone else? Having other people do for you costs. In more than money.

Are you seriously asking US if it's a good option to buy and ship bricks across an international border? By now you SHOULD know what Mike and I think. Unfortunately you've convinced yourself building a forge is an insurmountable task.

I'm not self help guru, watch Doctor Phil or something. Buying a forge for 4x what you could build one for is up to you. If you're so sure you just can't do it yourself YOU have left YOURSELF no choice. 

Honest, a few hundred bucks one way or the other for a piece of equipment you're going to use for a couple decades is truly insignificant. However convincing yourself you just can NOT overcome such minor problems will last you a lifetime.

Blacksmiths are doers, not fretters. If you gotta fret over something fret about how far to draw a temper on a chisel or something usefull.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Wow, just wow. Frosty, I do not know where this attack is coming from.

I simply answered a fellow countryman's request for how much it would cost to ship that particular forge since I already asked the seller.
The comment about the bricks was not that I suggested that you should ship a hundred pound of bricks across country. But it has to be accounted that if someone (anyone) is interested, the 12 fire bricks that are mentioned as included on that product's page are to be purchased separately thus AT EXTRA COST.

I can't count the numbers of threads and testimonials of people who bought a professionally made forge and that it was the best they ever had. Better than any they ever made themselves. Surely they must all be stupid like me.
There are also surely the same amount of people who had the exact opposite experience. Who couldn't be happier with the forge they've designed themselves, specifically for what they wanted to do and for way less money. More power to them.

I had already made my mind about not asking any more info on the subject of gas forges on this forum seeing how it exasperates other members. But this as just reached a new height. You're insinuation to go get psychological help is downright insulting.

Blacksmiths can be doers or fretters or whatever they want to be. As long as they are passionate about it, I don't give a dime about the rest.

[Frosty]

Dom: It's called a "kick in the butt!"

You are spending more time and effort justifying why you won't decide than it'd take to find a menial job and earn enough to buy the spiffyist forge made. You are right about one thing though, to quote you. "Blacksmiths can be doers or fretters or whatever they want to be. As long as they are passionate about it, I don't give a dime about the rest."

I don't know anybody who'll give a dime for a passionate ditherer. Your choice, it's a free country.

I'll leave you alone now unless you decide to do something.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Rikco13,

I would love to see you copy that list and suggestions on Forges 101, so that it might remain easy for other Canadians to access.

[Ricko13]

Sure thing @Mikey98118, I had thought of doing a sort of Bill of Material that folks can use to look at supplies in their area... but time is hard to find.