Bob Cofer Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I received an "old" Peter Wright anvil. I have 2 questions. (1) How to tell the weight, there is 1 1 4 on the side. I was told that this is a code for the weight. I have been told it could weigh anything from 114 pounds to 144 pounds. (2) The table top needs repairing. The table is flat and has a good ring and rebound, but needs to be repaired. Edges have chips and are rounded over. How is this done? Machinist milling off the top? Welding the edges? Thanks in advance, I will take a photo and post later. Sincerely, Bob Cofer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Okay, there is a LOT of information on this forum that addresses those questions, so I strongly recommend you read around and see the answers that other people have given before. Here are some quick responses to your questions: 1. 1 - 1 - 4 is indeed "code". The first number is hundredweight (112 lbs), the second is quarter-hundredweight (28 lbs), and the third is pounds. So, 112 + 28 + 4 = 144 lbs. 2. Don't do it. Anvil repair is specialized and risky. If the top is flat and the rebound is good, LEAVE IT THE [language inappropriate for a family-friendly forum] ALONE!!! Rounded-over edges aren't necessarily bad, and you should be able to work around the chips. That said, Welcome! Go to the "Introduce Yourself" section and let us know who you are (after reading the "Read This First" pinned post). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Peter Wrights are weight marked in the CWT system leftmost digit is hundredweights: 112, middle digit is quarter hundredweights: 28 pounds and only 0-3, rightmost digit(s) is remainder so 114 = 1*112 + 1*28 + 4 = 144 pounds. Of course setting it on your bathroom scale would have worked just as well... DO NOT GRIND OR MILL ON THE FACE OF YOUR ANVIL! ANVILS ARE *NOT* SUPPOSED TO HAVE SHARP EDGES! Shoot I have a smithing book that's over 125 years old that says (paraphrased) "is there anybody so dumb as to think an anvil should have sharp edges?" (Practical Blacksmithing, Richardson, 1889, 1890, 1891) More anvils have been ruined by machinists or welders that may be excellent in their craft but not aware of how anvils are constructed or used. Anvils have a limited thickness of hardened face. It is this face that determines the uselife of an anvil; decreasing it is almost always a very bad thing indeed! If it absolutely MUST be repaired and you are in the USA, I would look around for an ABANA affiliate that is hosting an anvil repair day and using the CORRECT process to repair them. (Robb Gunter's process is generally accepted as being one of the best). In general if you for some odd reason need a sharp edge---make a hardy tool with it! Last anvil repair day I attended only 2 anvils were worked on: the first had been milled down till the edges were square and there was no usable face left---threw away several hundred dollars of anvil value taking a usable anvil and making it a hunk of scrap metal + the cost of the milling. It took over 5 hours of work by a professional welder using industrial equipment to build up the face to usability again. (Not including preheat and post cool times!) Price the cost of that and you can see that the owner would have spent more money recovering from his folly than an anvil in better shape would have cost. (The repair day was free + the cost of consumables) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 It weighs 144 , first number is while stone weights (112#) second is 1/4 stone weights (28#) and the 3rd is #s so it 112 +28+4=144 . You can use an angle grinder to smooth out the edges but I wouldn't be in a hurry , and if you feel you need to go light and just smooth them alil you can always do more if need be but putting metal back is much harder. A picture would help us know how bad ITIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cofer Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 First thanks to the many responses I received. Then I wish to apologize. I did not have the anvil in my possession at the time of my first post. I was told about the anvil. I was told the edge on the top would need repair. . I see, after it arrived this morning, that someone has done some welding on the edges. Looks like stainless steel weld to me. not sure what was used. I hope these photos help with the following new question. So my new question is this fixable? Is this a usable anvil? I am new to heating and beating metal. I am a retired welder/fabricator, and in my "old age" I want to learn to make knifes. I have the forge and now an anvil. Thanks guys. Looking forward to what you all think. Sincerely, Bob Cofer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Can you look at that and tell us if they did a proper preheat/postheat and used the proper rod? I'm not a professional welder and so can't look at the picture and tell. I would tell the owner that welding on the edges drops the price substantially as we can't tell if it was done correctly or not and so have to err on the side of the welder having made it worse in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cofer Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thomas thanks for your replies to my dilemma. I can not tell if it was preheated. I do not know what rod or wire was used. When metal is heated it often changes colors. This looks to be evenly colored, except for the weld itself. I worked with mild steel and stainless steel over my 27 year career, that is why I think think this is stainless steel weld, no rust on the weld. The rebound, that I was told is good, is not really good, I would say fair. I used a ball peen hammer to bounce on the anvil, not sure what else to use. As far as price goes, this is a present to me. P.S. some grinding was done after the welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 If it's free then it will be a great starter anvil as a knifemaker you are more interested in the middle of the anvil in the sweet spot anyway. (But do tell people NOT to weld on anvils! There are correct methods to do so---see Robb Gunter Anvil Repair for one; but most folks don't know about the face being high carbon steel and the mass being perfect for auto-quenching and so HAZ cracking is the rule not the exception if you don't do it correctly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cofer Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thanks Thomas, I appreciate the input. I did know that welding on an anvil was a no-no. We had one in our shop where I worked. I don't remember the brand, I never got to use it either. There was a fellow employee who was the blacksmith, forge, power hammer and anvil were all HIS and HIS alone, if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 With luck those welded edges will just be soft and can be rounded off for use---sharp edges damage your work and can cause cold shuts and stress risers in blades! With bad luck over time they will crack off leaving the edges in worse condition than they were; which you can either live with or repair correctly. Here in the USA local ABANA affiliates my sponsor an anvil repair day---I've been to ones in Ohio and New Mexico so far; where proper repairs can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cofer Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thomas, Thanks again. On to another question. Old Lawn mower blades, the flat ones, would they be good steel to use to make a knife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 most would be, but it is almost always better to stay away from mystery metal for blades. especially for a beginner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, Bob Cofer said: On to another question. Old Lawn mower blades, the flat ones, would they be good steel to use to make a knife? Short answer #1: Yes. Short answer #2: No. Comprehensive answer: Mystery metal is a problem for anything that you want to get predictable heat treatment. Lawn mower blades can be any number of proprietary alloys that are designed specifically to be one thing: lawnmower blades. Some of these can be forged and heat treated; others can't. Spending a few bucks on a known alloy with known properties and known heat treatment procedures can save you a lot of time, energy, and grief. Counterpoint to comprehensive answer: However, if you have access to free steel, you might consider giving it a try. Lots of folks do, with varying degrees of success. I myself made my first two knives from a lawnmower blade, and they turned out fine (although it's entirely possible that I just got lucky). Be aware of the pros and cons, and proceed with caution. If you choose to go this route, make sure to read the sections on stock identification (spark testing and so on), test quenching, etc, etc. This is an area where people have strong opinions, both for and against. Keep an open mind, and try to make a good, rational decision. Do NOT fall into the trap of thinking, "I have this stock; I must use it for this kind of project." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I see a basic assumption that all lawn mower blades made by many different companies over many years would be the same material. This is not the case. If I am evaluating scrap metal for bladeworthiness, I do a heat and quench and break test---using water for the quenchant and wearing PPE when breaking it. If it snaps off with little force needed with the hammer and has a nice fine grain then yes it should make a blade. If it takes substantial force to break it or worse just bends then no! How I like to start people off bladesmithing is to take a lightly used coil spring from a vehicle and slice down two sides on a diameter giving a dozen ( pieces that are all the same alloy so they can learn and test to destruction a number of blades with the same alloy to work out what works best for *THAT* alloy---no guarantee that the next coil spring will be the same alloy; but they often are or are close. This is why we generally advise folks to start with known good steel and work from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Yeah, it really depends on what your going for. I just started on a blade from a broken bush hog blade that someone gave me. They asked me if I could make a knife from it, so I am. I could use one of my known alloys that I have lying around, but sometimes it is just cool to show someone what you can do. I did a spark and break test, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cofer Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Thanks you guys. I thought as my first attempt to make a knife, this steel would be a place to start. I only have 2 blades, 24" X 2.5" X 0.25" heavy thick pieces. I am familiar with the heat and break on the steel, I will do this. The blacksmith at the shop I worked at explained that to me. So what about truck leaf springs? Same thing? Heat and break? As you can tell this is all new to me, and I do appreciate any and all the help I can get. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 well in 36 years I have run into *1* automotive leaf spring which would not quench harden (low alloy strain hardened) *BUT* I *have* run into 1 leaf spring that would not quench harden! So I suggest testing before spending the hours working on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Bob, I have a 100lb Mousehole anvil with that same pattern of stainless weld "repair", but I have only been using it that way for about 20 years. It has some hammer marks and one chip in the stainless build-up because I let students use it. If it becomes a major problem to the point that it affects use in the future, I will consider grinding away all the bright weld and fixing it right. But today is not that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Let us say a similar stainless weld repair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cofer Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Thanks again for all the good information. Looks to me like it is time to start playing with some metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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