jimdad07 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hello all. Brand new here, I've browsed in here from time to time and wanted to share with you guys my journey into a new hobby. I'm getting into this mostly to make my own tools. Right now I'm working on a track anvil that has a long ways to go as you can see below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Guess I had it in the wrong section. When I'm shaping my horn is there any advice you guys have on the taper of the horn? Meaning long with a gentle taper to a point, or short with a dramatic taper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 long with a gentle taper is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Well it depends on what YOU will be using it for; so did you tell us that important factor and I missed it? Or should I assume you will be doing exactly what I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millhand Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I love making tools, favorite past time of mine. I'd say leave it with lots of stock to remove and adjust after you pound on it for a long wile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said: Well it depends on what YOU will be using it for; so did you tell us that important factor and I missed it? Or should I assume you will be doing exactly what I do? Ah...a common sense guy....you are absolutely right. I'm looking to make tools i.e. timber framing chisels, bark spuds, mortising chisels, axes and hatchets down the road. Not planning on doing scroll work or anything ornate but more strait forward hammering. I do plan to make socket chisel instead of full tang. The other plans include a hydraulic forge press down the road but not until I finish the barn I've been timber framing. I do understand that a track anvil is not ideal but I'm hoping I can make it work until I can afford a proper anvil or scrounge enough 1.5"+ plate steel to make an anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Welcome aboard Jimdad, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. Uh, the list of things you want to do don't need a horn, even the sockets. If you made a horn long and narrow enough to dress up chisel sockets you'd poke holes in your leg walking into it. Mine isn't pointy enough and it'll leave a NASTY UGLY bruise on you with just a bump. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Thanks Frosty. I'll get in there and add a location. I live up on the Canadian border in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 OK I'd size 2 horns: one slightly smaller than your sockets to make welding them easier and one exactly to size for truing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Poet Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 20 hours ago, Frosty said: If you made a horn long and narrow enough to dress up chisel sockets you'd poke holes in your leg walking into it. Mine isn't pointy enough and it'll leave a NASTY UGLY bruise on you with just a bump. Frosty The Lucky. No one wants an anvil horn in their crotch. I speak from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I've often thought that the hundreds of anvils I've seen with the horns dressed back with a hammer were done after a close encounter of the *OUCH* kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I was just confused why you put a layer of 7018 over a 1080ish tool steel surface..... Rail by itself is a good material. The best way to use rail is on its end, not laying flat, so if you have another chunk try it that way too. About the only thing that I use the horn for is as a large diameter fuller. All of my scrolling is done on the face of the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 I put a layer on it to level it out. I'm putting a 1/2" piece of 1080 steel on top of that, ignorance at the time is also part of it. Hoping to buy a proper anvil in the fall, but I wanted to try my hand at making one first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Poet Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't want to seem like a Jerk, but I wouldn't waste a nice piece of 1/2" 1080 on that, especially if it's a foot or so long and an inch or two wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Top is about 6" wide and 2' long. I have 12 pieces of 1080 steel, 1/2" thick, 3 to 6" wide and 4' long. I was thinking on getting a nice, flat surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 So since you need to do a full penetration weld you now need to space the plate off the surface so you can stick the rod down between the face and rail top and run beads cleaning after each one till you get to the surface, A curved starting surface was a plus! I have a feeling that this anvil build was not researched well before starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 I did a lot of reading on it first, and my initial plan was to do a few butter layers with 7018, pound the xxxx out of it grind it flat an then go over it with hard surfacing rod. That was the plan until I came into all that 1080 and thought it would be better than grinding down the hard surfacing rod. I planned to weld it on as two parts with a chamfer down the middle on both sides while grinding out the hardy hole before welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Full penetration weld or just around the edges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, ThomasPowers said: Full penetration weld or just around the edges? I didn't flatten it out on the outsides, I was working on the middle. If I was only using one piece of track instead of two pieces put side by side I would have just ground one edge square and rounded over the other side. When I put the two pieces together, it left a deep valley down the middle that I filled in with 7018 after welding the track together using 6011. I did find that I had to heat the whole shooting match up pretty good before welding to get good penetration. Set it over top of a little forge I made to hear it. As to your question, I'd like a full penetration of possible, I don't want any voids under the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 52 minutes ago, jimdad07 said: I did a lot of reading on it first, and my initial plan was to do a few butter layers with 7018, pound the hell out of it grind it flat an then go over it with hard surfacing rod. That was the plan until I came into all that 1080 and thought it would be better than grinding down the hard surfacing rod. I planned to weld it on as two parts with a chamfer down the middle on both sides while grinding out the hardy hole before welding. Neither is a good plan. You're falling into one of many common mistakes made by folk breaking into a new craft. This particular one is trying to design tools without knowing what you need let alone you're doing. RR rail as it sits, without any shaping, flattening, heat treating, A-N-Y THING makes a perfectly serviceable anvil. Cut square and clean, mounted on end the web and flange make any number of excellent tools without needing a Hardy or bottom tools to go in it. Charles Stevens posted some superb examples a while back. There is no, ZERO need to flatten the rail cap, all you'll do is remove the induction hardened surface. Flat is over rated in the extreme. A convex curve like a rail cap moves metal more efficiently than flat and if for some reason you need a flat surface it's flat lengthways. If it's mounted on end you have access to the large flat surface of the flange. Take a wire wheel to that rail, radius the ends so you don't have sharp edges and put it to work, laying flat or on end it's a heck of a useful anvil as it sits. If you need something to true up and weld chisel sockets make a bic and clamp it in a vise. You aren't going to be hammering on it hard enough to damage a cast iron bench vise so you won't spend a bunch of time trying to fashion a suitable horn on a rail anvil and lock yourself into a limited range of uses. You're overthinking this, learn to use what works and when it gets to limited for you modify or replace it. Pick up an anvil when a good deal comes along, don't get in a rush, all our worst mistakes happen when we're in a hurry. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Good advice and thank you. I do tend to over think and over build when I'm new to something. I'll give it a shot after I clean it up a little more and see how it goes. I do have another small piece of track I can mount on a stump with the radius still on it. If you think this is bad for over thought, you ought to check out the new shop/barn I'm building. If you're interested I'll send you a link, I'd post it but it's off topic and I don't want people thinking I'm spamming them. Wooden pegs and 10x16 timbers make for some over engineering, especially when you're building totally solo. Thanks again for your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 No you'll fit right in. I once made a mortise and tenon tent frame and to prove a point hung a porch swing off one end, then 500#+ of us sat on the swing and swung with no problems---and this was a portable tent frame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdad07 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: No you'll fit right in. I once made a mortise and tenon tent frame and to prove a point hung a porch swing off one end, then 500#+ of us sat on the swing and swung with no problems---and this was a portable tent frame! That is impressive. Nothing better than building something to last! The timber frame I'm building is what got me interested in smithing. Been reading about it for a few years no and now I have to try it out. Here's the barn if you are curious. If it looks like shameless spamming I'll be happy to take the post down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 We love pictures and videos. This is a real timber framing. I am very impressed. Somehow it reminds me of techniques used in Japanese temple construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Get Bent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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