Striking anvil questions

[Mark BullCreek]

Hello, this is my first post. You have a great forum here.

 I have an old 83 lb Northern Star cast steel anvil from Sweden. I have done a few small projects but really don't want to do heavy projects on my anvil as im worried it may be a bit too small and I don't want to destroy it. I am building a striking anvil (6'x12'x 3" thick mild steel with a 1" Hardy hole) but sizing the stand and height of the face as you would a regular anvil (instead of the shorter striking anvil height) to use for the larger projects i want to do in the future, Until i can afford a larger anvil I figure i can use the horn on my old anvil when needed. Does this sound like a bad idea? How far in should the Hardy hole be in from the edge? Should I put a Pritchel hole in it (and what size if so)? How far in from the edge should the Pritchel hole be, and how far away from the Hardy hole? Your thoughts would be appreciated Sorry to be so long winded.

[Glenn]

Place that 6'x12'x 3" thick mild steel on cinder blocks, pallets, etc, anything to hold it up.  How thick is the stock you plan on striking? If 1 inch then get a piece of 1 inch board, if 2 inches, then get a 2 inch piece of board or wood, etc. Lay the  wood on the striking anvil, grab a striking hammer, and whack the wood a couple of times. Look at the crescent indentations in the wood. If they are at 12 o'clock the anvil is too low, if at 6 o'clock, the anvil is too high. Adjust as needed for the striker and hammer being used, to get nice round indentations from the hammer. You now have the height needed for the anvil face, when it is being used by that striker and hammer.

Search for portable hole instead of a hardie hole.

Prichel holes are great when you are using prichel punches. You are planning on using a prichel punch, right?

Do not worry about all the bells and whistles, as modifications will come later after you need them.

I do question the size of your striking anvil though. 6'x12'x 3" as in 6 feet by 12 feet by 3 inches thick of mild steel sounds like a very nice size work table. Rough numbers have it weighing 8600 pounds based on a 12 inch x 12 inch x 1/2 inch piece of steel weighing 20 pounds.

 

[Mark BullCreek]

Thanks. Not sure if i will be using a pritchel punch for shoeing because i can use my other anvil for that but if there is a lot of call for it in other projects I would. Id just like to be able to use and do almost anything i need to do with in reason with this new set up. But long story short I'm new to this and don't know what to equip for and would like to have it when i need it if in fact i may need it. Would I need the pritchel hole to drive smaller round punches through the work piece? Or just use the Hardy?

[Glenn]

Then go slow and build your equipment inventory as you need it.

 

[Mark BullCreek]

Yes sir, will do. Thanks

[ThomasPowers]

You can always add a pritchel at a later time if you end up doing a lot of punching and need one. Drilling mils steel isn't going to change much between now and then.  

Not knowing how hard you will be using the striking anvil makes it hard to give a suggestion on hardy hole location.  

Wanting to do *everything* is like asking for a 15 passenger vehicle that can carry 16 tons of gravel and win formula 1  races while having 40mpg fuel usage.

I suggest start out with some of the basics and work out your wish list for the next one or the reworking of that one.  Often another anvil will show up once you start using one...

[Mark BullCreek]

Thanks. Yeah I realize i wont be able to do it all with just that (or ever be able to do it all!) I guess I just want to set up something versatile to be able to still use it as I progress. I was thinking i may want the pritchel hole for at least a holdfast.  Eventually I want to be able to make hammers, axes, and fairly heavy duty hand tools.

[Mark BullCreek]

Measurements were a typo! I meant " Inches. My eyes aren't what they used to be! 3 inches thick 12 inches long and 6 inches wide. 

 

[Frosty]

56 minutes ago, Mark BullCreek said:

Measurements were a typo! I meant " Inches. My eyes aren't what they used to be! 3 inches thick 12 inches long and 6 inches wide. 

 

Well DARN, that isn't so impressive then.

You'd be surprised how heavy work you can do on a Swedish cast steel anvil. Still that's a little on the light side, great size for a traveling kit.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mark Ling]

I wouldn't necessarily say that its on the light side, as striking anvils (they vary obviously) weigh about 75lbs, but that its not built right for heavy striking. now, I wouldn't work on the heel or horn of the anvil with a 14lb sledge. personally I wouldn't use that anvil for striking on, but (especially since you already have some of the materials) would go ahead and make a striking anvil. The nice thing about striking anvils, is that they are mild steel, and are meant to be mild steel. Reason being, that with a missed blow, all it does is dent it, where if you have missed blow on a cast Swedish steel anvil with lets say a 12 lb. sledge, I can almost guarantee that there will be some sort of damage to it, including a chip of metal from the anvil flying through the air-not really safe! and with a mild steel anvil you can grind and weld as much as you want on it, because you don't have to worry about grinding through a high carbon face plate (such as you would have on, not all, but some London pattern anvils. mainly depends on brand, date it was made, etc.), or thinning it, resulting in less rebound, and a less efficient anvil.

My hardy hole on my striking anvil that I'm working on is 2 inches in from the end (that's 2 inches in to the near side of the hole). As that was what I was told by a friend of mine who basically makes hammer for his living (Matt Marti).

Here is a video by Alec Steele, going through some of the qualities of a striking anvil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2jFtCjZHVM

Hope some of this helps a little!

                                                                                                                                        Littleblacksmith

[Mark Ling]

But, I guess you do have a point, because as the weight goes up on London pattern anvils, (typically) the more robust they are, and are more suitable for striking.

                                                                                                                                Littleblacksmith

[Mark BullCreek]

I was wondering if a cast steel anvil would let me get away with a little more in spite of its weight.Thank you all for the input.  Going by everything i read i was worried to use much more than a 2 pound hammer on such a small anvil, That would probably limit what i can do. That's why i'm building a striking anvil and just going to use it for all the heavier stuff until i can come across a bigger anvil.

[C-1ToolSteel]

I wouldn't limit an 80 pounder to a 2lb hammer. I started out with a 20lb railroad rail and used a 4 pounder all the time. It definitely isn't as efficient as my current anvil, but it wouldn't hurt it. Cast Swedish anvils are usually excellent quality, and even though they can chip if you miss, that's just part of learning blacksmithing.

[JHCC]

Remember also that you're not hitting the anvil only; you're hitting the system made up of the anvil and its stand. A hefty stand attached solidly to the anvil increases the effective weight. 

When I went from having my 148# Mousehole spiked to a ~50# ash log to having it bedded in silicone caulk on a 150# welded steel stand, it made a world of difference. 

[Mark BullCreek]

Thanks guys. this all helps!

 

[jlpservicesinc]

It really comes down to what it is you want to forge..   the larger the stock the larger the anvil.  While cast steel or forged steel anvils do offer a slight advantage theoretically. I have seen a number of steel Hay Budden anvils with the tail knocked off as well as Eagle anvils and a slue of others..  It does seem that in this regards they all fared about the same wrought iron vs steel vs cast steel..   

Ideally,  as long as you use the center of the mass (anvil body) and forge here you will limit the heavy blows on the tail or horn of the anvil..  I do have a preference for European double horn designs with the hardie hole towards the horn as there is more mass there and will be far less likely to snap the middle of the anvil off.. 

As for tools and where to start.. forge, anvil, vise, hammer..  with only these 4 items you can pretty much make everything else..     And for anvils..  Any anvil like object will work..  

 

Glenn's suggestion for striking height is good, but also consider who is doing the striking.. A striker who is good and learned can use an anvil or ALO up to about 3 or even 5" from standard height and do an excellent job, where someone with little skill will have a hard time with 1" variance and getting the hammer to land full face contact.. 

As i have gotten older and started to look at the older forged anvils be it European or american.. I realize now how unique each one is as they are hand made so have a lot more love for them..   I used to routinely make hardie tools in my 1917 Hay budden using 16lbs sledge.. Not anymore.. 

Number one rule.. Just have fun..   

 

[JHCC]

5 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

As for tools and where to start.. forge, anvil, vise, hammer..  with only these 4 items you can pretty much make everything else..    

Something to heat, something to hold, sometime to hit on, and something to hit with.