Jackdawg Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 So, being a rank amateur when it comes to blacksmithing, I have been playing about a bit, soaking up info on the site and learning the lessons from a couple of other beginners who are traveling the same journey and have posted about their adventures recently, including the advice they got. So I think I finally reached the point where I am advanced enough to actually show my failures and share them I have been playing about with a couple of things, made a few S hooks tapers etc, then decided to make a set of tongs from reinforcing steel, and also making a cut off hardy tool from the end of a CV shaft. My anvil is only a little 20kg caste steel unit, so only has a small hardy hole, 13mm square. Gotta say my biggest issue until today has been my kak handedness and inability to visualise what it is I am making. (or attempting to make). Today I moved to a new level of "Oops" So today I got both the hardy tool and the tongs to the point where they were pretty rough, but at least functional and looked like a usable tool . I wanted to heat the hardy tool and let it cool gradually so I could finish it on the grinder, and I wanted to rivet my tongs. So now getting thoroughly cocky, I tried to work both in the fire at the same time, end result being I burnt both of them! The cutoff tool is salvageable, but wont look anywhere as good as it did, and will be somewhat shorter! (You can even see the shower of sparks coming off it in the photo, was like a fireworks show) The tongs, well the end of one side of them was just missing when it came out of the fire! There was enough left for me to at least practice putting a rivet in I think I managed to do the rivet quite well without stuffing anything up any more at least ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I think you are supposed to burn it, but only when you weld low carbon steel. There are several videos on Youtube which demonstrate this and one advertises burning it quite a bit for 5 seconds. he makes real beautiful scrolled ornamental work. Welding sections together. No flux. Just lets it burn good and then lightly hammers together. Most of my students burn their projects up. I mean, when they isn't supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 No lesson like the one of putting too many irons in the fire. ( I guess it all depends on skill and what your doing and fire control.) Im guilty of getting distracted just long enough to burn up hours worth of work. I really need to quit learning that lesson. Tho I re-learn it less often now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Geist Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Is good that you've mastered this fundamental already. If heat control remains a problem I'd recommend a gas forge. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 For those of us with ADD (or kids...) I find that gas is good, but I prefer bellows of some kind. I burn steel up with coal with any kind of blower if I get distracted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Welcome to the club Jack. Heat management is THE name of the game. Too much air. You're burning wood right? So much for folk who complain they can't get enough heat because all they have is wood. Ayup, those look like what happens when you use rebar alright. Inconsistent steel. The hot cut looks pretty nice, a little grinding and it'll be like new. Oh wait it WILL be new! Turn your air down or move farther back from the air blast and you're off to the races. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Yeah, been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackdawg Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 cheers all, finished it off yesterday. Didnt grind out all the burn / hammer marks, just dressed up the pointy bits and had a go at quenching it and tempering back to a straw colour. It ended up about 10mm shorter and similar reduction in width to what I had before I burnt it. Straw colour on the working edge looks deeper in the photo's than it did in daylight when doing it, but I am happy with a first go at it. Frosty burning wood and charcoal, playing with both, but yeah Australian hardwood gets nice and hot! Was using charcoal when I burnt the steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Straw is a little hard for a hot chisel but don't worry about it, cutting hot steel will draw the temper till it's near normalized unless you forged it from a H series steel. It's a fine tool you'll remember and cherish it till you're dust no matter how many other tools you make. Good on ya Brother. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Do what you want, but with all my HOT cut hardies I don't bother with heat treating them, there really isn't much reason to. First, because if you are cutting any large stock, its going to get tempered pretty well, and second, because if you're cutting hot steel it doesn't need to be; hot steel is going to be softer than cold steel. Especially if I am giving a beginner class, because if they have bad hammer control or decide to cut all the way through the bar, its no big deal. The hot cut gets dull, and my hammer face is still smooth. I find it easier to re-sharpen a hot cut than to re-grind a hammer face. Now, on COLD cut hardies, yes, I do heat treat them, and also put a steeper grind on them. Its good practice on heat treating, and it looks like you did a good job. But that's just my thoughts. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 1 hour ago, littleblacksmith said: Do what you want, but with all my HOT cut hardies I don't bother with heat treating them, there really isn't much reason to. First, because if you are cutting any large stock, its going to get tempered pretty well, and second, because if you're cutting hot steel it doesn't need to be; hot steel is going to be softer than cold steel. Especially if I am giving a beginner class, because if they have bad hammer control or decide to cut all the way through the bar, its no big deal. The hot cut gets dull, and my hammer face is still smooth. I find it easier to re-sharpen a hot cut than to re-grind a hammer face. Now, on COLD cut hardies, yes, I do heat treat them, and also put a steeper grind on them. Its good practice on heat treating, and it looks like you did a good job. But that's just my thoughts. Littleblacksmith Yes to all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackdawg Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 Thanks Frosty! Littleblacksmith and JHCC - I had noticed people recommended not bothering to heat treat cut off tools because of the heat they end up getting in use - , but it was my first bit of carbon steel I've had a chance to play with, I just had to have a go at doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 28 minutes ago, Jackdawg said: Thanks Frosty! Littleblacksmith and JHCC - I had noticed people recommended not bothering to heat treat cut off tools because of the heat they end up getting in use - , but it was my first bit of carbon steel I've had a chance to play with, I just had to have a go at doing it Jackdawg, looking back at your last set of pictures, I see something that disturbs me: Is that a crack running vertically from the shank up into the tool? If so, DO NOT USE THIS TOOL! The last thing you want is for a piece of hardened steel to come apart under a hammer blow, especially when it's right at the perfect height to do some real damage. Safety first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackdawg Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 Does look like a crack in the photo doesn't it? I shall have to look closer when I get a chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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