zadvorney Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I've been practicing for a while making tongs and fullers. It has taught me how to move metal but I needed to try something more artistic. I decided to attempt some numbers from straight stock. The starting piece was 3/8"x1"x7". I marked it at 3/4" and 3 1/2" and slit from point to point. Bone head move as I didn't mark the opposite side until I was half way through. As a result the slits didn't line up. Lots of material in the slit. I flattened a chisel point and made an oblong punch to remove the excess material. A little file work fixed my issue. Next I fullered the remaining 1" into 1/2" by 3/8" . Note to self - don't leave the piece in the forge and think of your next move, almost scorched it. I worked the ring part on the horn and faded the extra material from either end into the circle. Formed the top of the six and taadaa, the number six. Next is a five. Fullering the right angle into the top of the five will be the challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Not bad, not bad at all. When I do a 9 or 6 I lap weld the ring. The rest just falls in place. I draw the needed character on the bench and do the final shape tweaking to match. 5s are hard, getting the transition from the bottom tail to make a nice crisp transition to the vertical part is no easy thing. The 4 isn't a snap either. The more you make the easier it gets. . . . still. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadvorney Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 i haven't figured out how to forge weld yet so there are limitations to my work. I use a gas forge and just can't get it hot enough. When I've tried in coal, I burn things. That is what I like about smithing. Every time is a learning opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Obviusly if your forge dosnt get hot enugh it will be a chalange, especially if you have an oxidizing flame. But you don't need "white heat" to weld modern steels. Wrought, with is structure and slag content required you to melt the slag as well as the iron, not so much with modern steel, a good soak to ensure that your stock is hot all the way threw is the ticket. Steve really helped me to understand that (despite a spot in the A36 that resisted even his talents). Clean, flat, pressure and heat. Get them right and it will stick, clean is top priority, that's why we use flux. It keeps things clean, followed by a solid, firm blow. We are not trying to squishe the steel juice out, just bring the two peices firmly together (this meets the "flat" rule, as the peices are now cleanly mated). Hitting it to hard or to light will screw up. Once you get it to stick then Bring it up to temp again and forge it atleast twice more, this migrates molecules from one side to the other, making it one peice of steel instead of two just "glued" together. Leo let's review (for the lurkers) clean, flat, hot and pressure. So either heat and brush off the scale, or file/grind smothe and clean. Insure you have shapes that will come to gether cleanly and provide a bit of meat to forge down to spec. Use flux to maintain this cleanlynes as you heat it. Heat the peice therolly, in a slightly carbidising atmosphere (not as hot as you think, don't crank that coal fire to white hot, high orange to low yellow is generaly hot enugh). Let it soke to make dang sure the inside is just as hot as the outside! Deliver a firm, desisive blow. Not a world ending blow or a peck, but a firm solid one. If you have enugh heat smack it again on each side, if not reflux and heat. Repeat atleast twice more to go from stuck to welded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Good summary Charles. Welding isn't hard if you follow the steps, a LOT easier than Algebra! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadvorney Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Thank you for the pointers. One thing though, I like algebra. Will that effect the my welding abilities? Seriously, thank you. I forged a 5 today. I did the layout a bit off so the 5 is bigger than the 6. I added an inch of stock for the space in the 5.....duuuuuh. I should have subtracted an inch. It came out ok. same basic layout and process. I made a set of offset jaw tongs to hold the ring stock. Meh...The best thing is the process. Four hours went by in a flash. This time I didn't leave enough stock at the joint. THIN... The right angle was easier than I thought it was going to be. I left extra stock in the area of the angle when I fullered the top section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 You LIKE algebra!? GASP!! Nice 5, just enough irregularity to give it the right look. Well done in spite of your aberration. Algebra GACK!! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Like Frosty said.. Looks good.. As for the welding heat thing.. You can also use a long straight poker with a flattened end with a little flux on it and as the metals come up to tempurature you can use the straight poker to see where it sticks.. When you get ot the right temp the poker will stick and you will have to twist it off.. Sure sign you are there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadvorney Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 I put them together today. I had been practicing root welds and a sheet of attempts that looked just like the bark on the tree in my front yard. Silver maple. I drilled two 3/8" holes through the sheet and attached some rod to the back of the numbers. A few tacks later I have house numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I like them, great texture on the plate. They're just wonky enough and similar enough to be a matched set. Perfect! (In the world of imperfection that is hand forged) Nobody will forget your number. Well done, seriously well done. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadvorney Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 Again, thanks so much. I tried forging in the gas forge. I had an old bandsaw blade and snapped it into 3" pieces. Welded them together on one end. Put it in the fire and it actually stuck together when I struck it! WOW! I said well heck, I'll make something out of it. So I made a little pocket knife. Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 2 hours ago, zadvorney said: Again, thanks so much. I tried forging in the gas forge. I had an old bandsaw blade and snapped it into 3" pieces. Welded them together on one end. Put it in the fire and it actually stuck together when I struck it! WOW! I said well heck, I'll make something out of it. So I made a little pocket knife. Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help. Pictures of the knife? HUH? Where are the pictures of the KNIFE? No pictures no knife! Congrats now go weld something even more cool. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Frosty, Could it be a "virtual knife"? SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, SLAG said: Frosty, Could it be a "virtual knife"? SLAG. In all "Realty" I suppose so. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 On 2/10/2016 at 6:37 AM, Frosty said: Welding isn't hard if you follow the steps, a LOT easier than Algebra! Frosty The Lucky. I'll take the algebra too, Frosty! Forge welding has always been a hit and miss affair for me. Probably using a side blast charcoal forge makes oxidation a problem. I've had limited success, but I am far from confident. And your numbers look just fine to me, Zad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadvorney Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 I used sulfuric acid to etch it. I could see the layers. Then I put blueing compound on it and it turned all black and you can''t see the layers. When I put a final edge on it the layers will show through there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 9 hours ago, ausfire said: I'll take the algebra too, Frosty! Forge welding has always been a hit and miss affair for me. Probably using a side blast charcoal forge makes oxidation a problem. I've had limited success, but I am far from confident. And your numbers look just fine to me, Zad. You MUST know your burn zones, you're working too close to the air blast. Doing fluxless welds in a charcoal fire can be hard to prevent. Fiddly bits you need to hold onto with tongs while they heat can weld to your tongs almost the instant you become distracted. Say someone asks if you want a coffee refill and you answer. For everybody who's turning their noses up at the "Forged in Fire" knife making contest "Reality" show, here's a practical bit for you. Whiteout correction fluid makes a good weld barrier, wipe some on your tong bits and the fiddly bit won't weld to your tongs. NOTHING is ALL bad. Welding is EASY if you follow the steps. Honest. Clean clean CLEAN the joint, flux, carburiing heat, enough soak time, firm but NOT hard blows to set the weld. Brush, flux the joint, re-heat and repeat before refining and shaping the weld. It's as easy as 1 2 3 4. Honest be patient Grasshopper it will come to you. I have students make a forge weld in my NA gasser first session to dispell the myth you can't weld in a propane forge and as a confidence builder. Frosty The Lucky. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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