New anvil has face repairs done right?

[tonyw]

Hello to all, I just bought this Peter Wright anvil stamped      1   3   22     which I believe means the weight is 218 pounds. I paid $300; it was on CL and am really excited about the good deal. The question I have is the anvil seems to have some unusual face repair; that is, there are fairly small spot welds all over the face. I am wondering how bad this is to the anvil and whether it would mess up the temper much. I tried to dent the welds, but they seemed just as hard as the rest of the face. what are your thoughts?

There also seems to be a small crack along the heel.

Also, there is a big bolt welded? in the handling hole in the bottom. Was this anvil worth $300? the face is very smooth and the edges aren't chipped badly.

(that is a shadow; there is not an arched base)

[Frosty]

I think you got a darned good deal there Tony. I can't see the welds on the face very well though they wouldn't be "spot" welds. Spot welding is entirely different, done typically to join sheet metal. It might be an attempt to repair pitting or someone ground off beads put on it by idjits who used the anvil for a welding table.

By the looks I don't think most are large enough beads to have hurt the heat treatment of the face much if any. If they don't dent under a ball pein I'd say you're golden.

If someone asks you about them, tell them that when anvils age they get silver spots the way people get liver spots. It's no accident Black Smithing and Bull Shooting are abbreviated the same you know.

Frosty The Lucky.

[tonyw]

Thanks Frosty. The welds do look very nice--that is, they are very hard and smooth and level with the rest of the face. I hope it was an experienced welder who knew what he was doing....

[John McPherson]

It seems that 90% of the anvils that I see repaired in the south are done with some sort of stainless steel stick rod. I have had a Mousehole as my main anvil for 18 years, that has all of the edges and the hardy hole done that way, and I saw another one this weekend at QuadStates. It should serve you well.

Don't get crazy trying to grind the surface flat and true, better to spend twenty minutes with a hand file than two minutes with a grinder that you can't control well.

The heel crack may be the start of a delamination. Stay away from doing any work on the heel with sledge hammers, and if it is still a problem in 50 years, call me.

[tonyw]

Thanks John. I had wondered if the welds were stainless, but wasn't sure why you would use stainless rod for a repair like this. And I will be careful with the heel. I am really excited about the good deal--I paid just a little over a dollar a pound!

[John McPherson]

Many semi-experienced welders think of E3XX series as a magic fix-all rod. The Frank's Red Hot sauce of welding, if you know what I mean.

The upside of stainless is that it will work on mild steel, high carbon steel, old wrought iron, even cast iron. The down side is that it is softer than the high carbon face plate, and is not a good color match, even if the face is polished. And, it will still crack and spall off chunks if abused.

[matto]

On the heel you could just be seeing the forge weld line.  Where the face plate was welded to the body.  By tapping it with your hammer you can usually tell by the action from the hammer or the sound the hammer makes when it hits if it is delamination. 

[tonyw]

thanks matto. The sound is the same across the entire face although the pitch rises as you tap further out onto the heel. Hopefully it is just a forge weld line.

[Yuppiejr]

1 hour ago, matto said:

On the heel you could just be seeing the forge weld line.  Where the face plate was welded to the body.  By tapping it with your hammer you can usually tell by the action from the hammer or the sound the hammer makes when it hits if it is delamination. 

My 130 lb Peter Wright has visible lines where the forge welds occurred between the face plate & body as well as the middle of the waist when it was manufactured.  I was told it's totally normal with later PW anvils when they didn't spend quite as much time on fit and finish, nothing to worry about.

[ironwolfforgeca]

Another Fix all rod I see for anvil repair is hard facing rod NOT the right rod to use but folks still do !

you can take a scribe and try to scratch the weld SS will scratch easily hard face will not 

Steve's Welding & Fab 

[tonyw]

Thanks for replying, IronWolf and Yuppie. Good to hear another "it's probably okay" about the forge weld line.

[John B]

5 hours ago, IronWolf said:

Another Fix all rod I see for anvil repair is hard facing rod NOT the right rod to use but folks still do !

Can you explain why not please? 

We have had high content managanese steel hard facing rods used, and they have worked fine, we work harden them with a hammer after welding,  and the welded areas are still able to be filed to blend with the adjacent surfaces, probably come in around 50 -55Rockwell, so not too hard, and easy for a non professional welder to apply. 

[Frosty]

Iron Wolf: I'd like to hear your reasoning too please.

Till then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean there are hard face rods that are the WRONG kind of hard facing for this purpose. This side of the pond there are many kinds of hard facing rods that are purpose designed. It's mostly a matter of selecting the correct rod and using it correctly.

In my opinion ANY welding rod is the wrong thing to use to "repair" or "restore" an anvil in all but rare instances. Almost any I've run across can be put to work as is.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ironwolfforgeca]

Ok most anvils i see this done to they use hard face on the edges with Bad! penetration some of it is chipping off the anvil done by Want-a Be welders ,can we say shrapnel

I can take a hammer & brake a piece off!!

also is it wear or in pack hard face ?? Or ?

there are many kinds of hard face most folks don't know that ! when I worked @ a rock crusher & asphalt plant as a maintenance welder I did alot of hard facing on all sorts of Eqt & rolls stick & wire

I take care when repair welding anvils right !! they end up looking & working like new I have done over a hundred or so now a days & not one unsatisfied customer !!  & years later i see that anvil again & ck it out to see how my work is doing !

they all have very little wear & some are in High school metal shops that says something !

also have anvils in x 5 or more in a blacksmith school those were the first i did along !!! time ago I see them & ck them every year & the still in good shape 

I repaired 2 PW #300 free for are schools metal shop here even with the Kids beating them up

there still in good shape 

And Thank You Rod G !

[ThomasPowers]

I think that what folks are trying to get at is that impact hard facing is good and abrasion hard facing is bad. especially with the spider webbing.  However at least in these parts the ground contact abrasion hard face is the "commonly found type" as it gets used all over for dirt moving equipment and the impact version is harder to find on the scrounge markets...

[Frosty]

We agree Iron Wolf, right down the line. I don't know how many lbs. of hardface rod and wire I've laid down.

The first anvil I repaired was against my advice and only because the youngster who owned it was going to do it himself if I didn't. A friend of his has a buzz box and he bought a few lbs. of the highest RC rod he could find at the welding supply. It was only edge damage running back less than 1/2" but he just HAD to have a "perfect" Peter Wright so I did it rather than see a beautiful old lady damaged.

I made him give me the rod he bought, I don't think I'll ever use it but at least it's not a risk to another anvil. how many anvils have you seen "repaired" by people who didn't even know how to grind the face flat? My Trenton's chipped edges were "repaired" and now the face slopes downwards for about 1.5" to the edges.

Doing a welded repair on an anvil is NOT a job for someone who doesn't know how to weld repair ANVILS. There's a reason I discourage it whenever I hear from someone who wants to "restore or repair" an anvil. If you gotta ask you don't know how.

You wouldn't ask me how would you?

Frosty The Lucky.