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Swage block stand?


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Anyone have a photo, current or historical of what a swage block stand most likely would have looked like in a busy 1930's era shop?  I know that there would have been a lot of variation--looking for ideas.

This is just basic research so I can build something for the Local Ag museum to hold the swage block they have in a manner to help explain it's use.  I'd like to be "authentic" to the era portrayed if that is even an issue. Not sure whether that means a good stump or fancier stand designed to match the block's size. The shop was a fairly busy larger welding/fabrication/smith shop active from the teens to the 70's, although the later years were mostly tractor repairs.  Right now, it's just sitting on the floor--heck, maybe that's where it sat when in use too :-)

On a side note, the current swage block we have has about 20% broken off one corner (and missing).  I wouldn't mind hearing about it if you have or see one cheap come up in the NW USA that we can replace the broken one with.

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Cast iron stand produced by the company that sold the swage block is what I've seen.  (I've seen once such stand with the swage block in it where a VoTech torched out the center of the swageblock to make it lighter and used it as an anvil stand...some folks are going to have *real* *trouble* in the afterlife!)  I'll check some of the books tonight to see if they make a suggestion.

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There are a couple of interesting images on the Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/hhh.nj0122.photos.107931p/ (left center, behind the rim of the wheel; looks like a cast iron stand)

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/hhh.pa0102.photos.141034p/ (foreground, on a stump)

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/hhh.vt0013.photos.167499p/  (foreground, looks like another cast iron stand)

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The ones I have seen are cast. They have a 1"-ish deep recess to locate the block when laid horizontal. So in plan view they are block size plus an 1"-ish rim and a bit of clearance all round. The block sits in the recess on square corner blocks which leave a cross shaped space in between.The width of the cross shape (two slots) is clearance on the thickness of the swage block so it can be stood on edge in the stand. There is a shelf at a lower level than the corner blocks to support the lower edge of the block when stood on edge in the slot. I have seen one with just a single slot rather than a cross.

Alan

p.s. A google image search for "swage block stand" brings up a load similar to JHCC's image links. The Alldays and Onions ones were common over here...nearly every school had one.

p.p.s. Forgot to add that mine has just sat on the floor ever since I had it. After thirty odd years in the business somebody offered one to me, and I thought oooh I am a blacksmith, every blacksmith should have a swage block.

It is the singular most useless (well strictly speaking most unused) tool I have ever purchased.

It has just sat on the floor just inside the door for the last twenty years. I used it once to form a robust trestle, not even very good for doing that!

Alan

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Thanks--I got so wrapped up in phrasing my question that I forgot the image search which I intended to do first.  At least I can sort of "fake" a more proper stand now and get the thing off the floor.  Yes, a mostly unused hunk of iron--the only use on ours is whatever broke it (and that was probably dropping it while someone moved it out of the way).  However, for visitors to the museum, it seems to draw interest so I wanted to at least display it in an appropriate way.  The other thing that seems to garner attention is the dunce cap.

 

Next questions will be about the early 1900's (supposably) helve hammer,  I'd like to get that running so it could be at least "fake" demonstrated.  I'll take some photos and get back to you guys.  Thanks again for all the help.  I know sometimes my questions seem a bit obvious or researchable elsewhere but I always figure that more information is better--especially information from experience rather than just old photos.

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1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

Fab up an angle iron stand for the swageblock and then clad it with sheetmetal so it looks more like a solid form.

Might think of installing some soft dies on the helve as sure a shooting someone will want to demonstrate it without a chunk of 2x4 between the dies...

Yea on the helve.  Rubber dies or something.  Not sure on that one because it was originally a line driven machine and it might be a bear to scab in a motor.  I have to check the stability of the wooden parts as it appears to have an old cosmetic restoration only.  Photos next week.  I might go stump on the swage because it's not actually going to be used and that'd be the easy way out--saw and clean out a recess.  Still thinking on it.

 

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The Gloucester Waterways Museum has a Bradley(?) helve hammer that they restored to full working order...well I say full.

The museum has this really enlightened policy of allowing starting-out blacksmiths to have the use of the facilities rent free, plus free coal/coke provided that they did not sneer at, or scare the visitors. The restriction was that the forge was fixed in the 1890's so they were not allowed any technology more recent than that...the maintenance workshop across the yard had a mig, saw and gas bottles which they could use after public hours or out of sight.

A number of good smiths started out there. Michael (Myloh67 on IFI) and Gunvor were there for a year or three. One of my assistants, Matthew Fedden, was the first to take it on within a few months of starting up.

When I went down to have a look around the only bad thing was that they had some new pallets made for the restored Bradley and when I pointed out that they needed to be dressed before they could be used, the museum director would not allow Matthew to "grind up our new tools"! When we went to some length to explain why sharp edges were a disaster he eventually conceded.

Myloh67 may have some insights into working and maintaining such a hammer try sending him a PM.

Alan

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One of my least used tools, if I need a particular swage for more that a one time thing I tend to find/make one that will fit in a hardy hole.  Same thing with bolsters, (have 1.5" hardy holes helps...)  Other people use theirs most every day.  Depends on what you do and how you do it.

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1 hour ago, Joel OF said:

Your swage block? Really?

Yes really.

I think it is one of those combination tool things...does a lot of things badly (okay-ish) rather than one thing well. 

Like Thomas says above, I make and use dedicated swages which go under the press or power hammer. The bolster and drift system I have constructed have sliding jaws so they support the the metal immediately adjacent to the drift as you open up a hole...I hadn't used fixed bolsters for punching/drifting for decades before I acquired the swage block, so the odd shaped holes were not much use.

So it has sat unused and unloved on the floor ever since I acquired it.

The other unused tool investment I made in the early days was a beautiful nibbler. It would cut 3mm (1/8") mild steel plate with a minimum radius of 50mm (2") and had a straight line cutter for 3/16" mild or 1/8" SS. Much more than I could afford, but Michael along the road had one and his mainstay at the time was making canopies to go over open fires...he made thousands of them. I ended up making three in my forty odd years of practice. The nibbler has laid in the drawer snoring loudly ever since 1979.

Alan

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1 hour ago, Alan Evans said:

 The bolster and drift system I have constructed have sliding jaws so they support the the metal immediately adjacent to the drift as you open up a hole...I hadn't used fixed bolsters for punching/drifting for decades 

Pictures? Perhaps a new thread, if there isn't one already?

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On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 3:14 PM, ThomasPowers said:

 (I've seen once such stand with the swage block in it where a VoTech torched out the center of the swageblock to make it lighter and used it as an anvil stand...some folks are going to have *real* *trouble* in the afterlife!)  

oh my, I hope they do!! I'm trying to keep back the tears. if they were In my shop, I would learn to swing a 20lb sledge perty good.

                                                                                                         Littleblacksmith

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7 hours ago, Alan Evans said:

So it has sat unused and unloved on the floor ever since I acquired it.

Well if I'm ever in your neck of the woods I'll gladly take it off your hands and love it!
Mine's old with chipped edges galore. I might have used mine once for punching/drifting but I've used mine stood up many times - forging hinge eyes around pins, forging V bit tongs, turning round bar into half round...I found a quick method for offsetting upsets onto bar ends for forging heel tenons too by upsetting at an degree angle into one of the V shapes in the block. Mine's conveniently the same height as my anvil so it also get's used as support stand (that won't fall over) for large objects.

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