I am going to make a guillotine today and was wondering if the dies should be hardfaced. by that I mean just running a bead or beads along the edge that hits the hot metal and grinding smooth. Or is it really not necessary just a lot of extra work. thanks.

If I had the MIG wire Id do it, we are constantly refacing texturing dies.
Im inclined to making a tool as tough as possible, so you don't have to repair it at in inopportune time.

If I had the MIG wire Id do it, we are constantly refacing texturing dies.
Im inclined to making a tool as tough as possible, so you don't have to repair it at in inopportune time.

wow that was quick czar!, I was thinking tig and maybe using stainless, I know its not real hardfacing but it would be many times tougher than the mild steel 1/2" plate.

an alternate approach would be to make multiple interchangeable parts
we employ this strategy when chiseling hot using the impact hammer, I dip a chisel in water, chisel a line or two, dip it again and set it aside, grab the next one and so on, the more chisels I have available the better.


Alot comes down to the duty cycle your asking of a tool and its probable temperature if asked to work too long on hot metal without a cool down period.

yes, I see, at this point I don't really have to worry about wearing things out! My arm will wear out sooner than the die!

well then make a mild steel version to see how long it lasts
then youd get an idea of the cost benefit ratio

when we forge something its often one of several hundred
makes me a little biased :p

St. jbc, i don't have one of them yet but i think any "better" steel will work ok by it's self, and with use it will wear into the edge you want then maybe go with hard face rod. there are folks here that do know more about those things than me, so listen up and you will get some way better advise, just my .02 worth, jimmy

You could of course make it out of mild, then quench into icy brine; IIRC it'll give you a hardness of approx. 52Rc; better than nothing.

My guillotine tool is over 15 years old now and the part that hits the hot metal is still in fine shape. It's the top where the hammer hits that has mushroomed and been repaired.

If you are working hot metal it's much more forgiving than working cold.

A friend of mine welds "pads" on the hammering end of the dies. These are just 1-inc X 1-inch, or so, disks. When the mushrooming gets too bad, he cuts it off and welds a new one on.

I recently made a set of 45 degree cut off dies for my guillotine. I thought mild steel would hold up fine for hot work. But no, they only lasted though a few cuts before dulling. I then quenched them in icy water. They have been holding up fine since. If I had to make another set I think I would use medium or high carbon steel and heat treat properly.

Fullering dies made of mild steel will probably hold up fine especially if they were ice water/brine quenched.

I do like the idea of TIG welding on a layer of stainless. It might be worth a try.

Dan

thanks for the ideas, I built a spring fuller a couple of days ago, and I see that the part the hits the hot, is fine its the top that is flattening. I already put a "1/2" thick hittin head" on the top dies. just finished it a couple of hours ago. I have to finish the top and bottom a little to move in smoothly, then figure out what dies I can make with what I have. I figure a fuller, but after that I don't know. If you guys have some suggestions of what you found to be well used dies let me know. thanks again.

why not just use a piece of 4140 and heat treat the business end. It is more expensive than mild steel but 4140 is fairly tough and should last; I think it is worth the extra expense. I use it for my tooling and am very satisfied.

flat dies and butcher dies are both real handy in the guillotuine. Mild steel will work just fine unless you have a thinner section like the cutoff mentioned earlier. Just get a piece of leaf spring that's about the width of the tool you want to make. Forge / grind the dies to shape and then heat treat the working end if you're so inclined.

Why not use tool steel that Clifton Ralph recomends for hot tools, OTS?

OTS is ordinary truck spring.

I am certain a sections of OTS could be found that is approriate but it may require remaking the guillotine.

Be sure you harden and temper it appropriately.

That sounds good, I can find spring around, and if I have to make a new guillotine thats Ok too, I sure need the tig practice! For the one I made I am going to look for a piece of 1/2" rod SS for the fuller unless I find a 1/2 round somehow. I Have a really good steel place about a hour away, they take all sorts of junk and have a lot of stainless. I will have to look up butcher die, don't know that one yet. thanks again

My guillotine was made in 81 or 2 its approxiametly 25 years old, all but a few of the interchangable dies are just mild steel, modern mild is from scrap so the carbon content is much higher than the old stuff 1003, just quench in ordinary water, even side sets have held up over the years. for the few that are better stuff its just some scrap 1045 and a mild water quench. A guillotine tool is just a simple tool, don't try to over complicate it with a lot of exotic stuff.

A guillotine tool is just a simple tool, don't try to over complicate it with a lot of exotic stuff.

Exactly. You want to be able to make any tool you dream up in just a few minutes with whatever is on hand. My tool was made to use 3/8"X3" blanks and when I made it I cut a bunch of blank top and bottoms. Anything I need I just drill, grind or weld something on and am good to go. Look at the blueprints of irnsrgns tooling for his. Simple and quick to make a variety of tools.

Keep it light. If you need a 6" wide guillotine to fuller 4" pipe make one for that. You don't want to be using the same tool to be putting tenons on 1/2" square. If your top bits weigh 3 pounds its gonna take a lot of hammer just to get it moving. Make a smaller size for general use. It will do most everything you need.

thanks I see what you are saying there.

A lot of truck spring has nice rounded edge that can be used to fuller as it stands.

Now if you want to fuller parallel to the long axis then a special built top and bottom die is necessary.

I have a guillotine that I patterned after Jr. Strasil, AKA irn sgn. The blades are made of 5160 leaf spring. I haven't wore any out and the tool is 5 years old. I also only work hot material with it.

looks like I am going to have to get some leaf spring, Will a band saw blade cut that without annealing? thanks.