jerryt Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Hi everyone, Got this anvil yesterday. I had posted about this anvil several weeks ago and the consensis was it was a Hay Budden. Due to site/login problems, I can no longer access your responses to refresh your memories so I'm on a new account. Anvil came from a local fellow who bought it from a family with a railroad history when they sold the barn/farm. It was mounted on a cast iron low platform which may have been a switch base in its original life. I removed it from the base to clean it up. Approximate anvil weight is 300 lbs. Length 32", height 13", width is 5 1/8". Base is 13x12" and base is about 2" thick at corners. The only identifier is a "6" left under the horn. Horn is 9" (12" including the step). Hardy is 1 3/8", pritchel is 5/8". It had been painted at some point but was mostly bare metal. Wire wheeled it today and coated it with linseed oil. Before oiling, used blue chalk and could not raise any identifiers. Please give your opinions on its identification and history. All the strike marks on the body make me think it may be a forged base. Ring is loud and clear, especially loud at the extreme ends. Rebound is great. At the step it appears an old repair was made. Top is flat. BTW: Smaller anvil in the background is a 214 lbs Peter Wright. Thanks for your efforts. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I love a flat face. Though many seem to desire a well worn/swayback. Though I can't imagine why. . . . . . Looks like a winner. Decent corners on the face too. It does remind me of a HB but they are real rare around here in north ohio and don't see many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 21 minutes ago, SReynolds said: I love a flat face. Though many seem to desire a well worn/swayback. Though I can't imagine why. . . . . . Looks like a winner. Decent corners on the face too. It does remind me of a HB but they are real rare around here in north ohio and don't see many. I'm in Virginia. Don't know enough about HB to comment on their availability here. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 You can see alittle of the rim around the bottom and the 6 stamped under the horn by the handling hole is classic hay Budden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Matto, Thanks for responding. What rim are you referring to and how does it point to Hay-Budden? Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 In your 2nd pic on the upper and the right side you can see what looks to be a raised rim. About a 1/4" or 3/8th" for the width. It would of been around the intire base at one point. Hay Budden was the only makers to do this that I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Thanks Matto, I see what you mean now. Was totally unaware of that characteristic. Perhaps that is what Tom Powers was referring to back in Feb when he said " Some of the early HBs had a very shallow rim to them that have been known to wear flat over a long life. I have one like that, you almost have to dust it to see the hourglass. " I was expecting to see some sort of defined hourglass-like logo cast into the base, not a rim edge on the base. My error. What can you tell me about the face/table? I seem to see some indication (line) indicating a welded tool steel surface, but it doesn't seem to travel the whole distance. I don't know how HB finished off the work surface of their anvils. The repaired area seems to have held up well, perhaps it was capped with hardface rod? Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 They don't get more Hay-Budden than that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Known as the "hourglass indentation" and often worn almost flat out of existence on older ones that had a thin shallow rim on them. (Boker Trentons also had an hourglass indentation often quite heavy) As Ohio had *3* anvil manufacturers in it, 1 in Cleveland (Columbian) and 2 in Columbus(Arm and Hammer and Trenton) perhaps the shipping charges made a difference for many people in the state. I did buy my first HB in South eastern OH and my second in NM and my third in CA... As for why people like a bit of a sway; it helps straightening blades as you can push them just a bit too far and have them spring back to dead straight. It does require practice on that particular anvil and we would not advocate someone modifying a flat anvil face for it; but we strongly object to people wanting to mill their faces flat throwing away decades of use life on an anvil that's good to use as it sits.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Known as the "hourglass indentation and often worn almost flat out of existence on older ones that had a thin shallow rim on them. As Ohio had *3* anvil manufacturers in it, 1 in Cleveland (Columbian) and 2 in Columbus(Arm and Hammer and Trenton) perhaps the shipping charges made a difference for many people in the state. I did buy my first HB in South eastern OH and my second in NM and my third in CA... As for why people like a bit of a sway it helps straightening blades as you can pushe them just a bit too far and have them spring back to dead straight. It does require practice on that particular anvil and we would not advocate someone modifying a flat anvil face for it; but we strongly obkect to people wanting to mill their faces flat throwing away decades of use life on an anvil that's good to use as it sits.. Blackfrog, Thanks. Tom, Thanks. Rest assured, I'll do no milling. As this picture shows, its pretty darned flat as it is. I intend to belt sand it a bit (80 grit) to cut through the rust and that is it. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Serial number should be on the front foot under the horn. That can give the date of manufacture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Have found nothing but will look again. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hay Budden was one of the best with finishing their anvils. Or in other words the best at hiding their weld lines. Don't belt sand it if any thing hair it with a 120 grit flapper wheel on a 4 1/2" grinder gust to brake the surface. But with using it you can do the same thing. My thoughts would be just use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Thanks Matto. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Did another exam of the anvil today and can find no weight marks, no writing and no serial number. I did spot what I believe is a seam adjoining the upper and lower sections at the waist. Tapped a bit with a 2.5 lbs hammer while it was sitting free on the plywood box with the smaller PW next to it. BIG difference in sound once removed from the cast iron base. Talk about a RING!!!!!. It rings and echoes high and loud all over the table face, but especially at the extremes of the horn and heel. With my severe high freq hearing loss from many years in the artillery, I doubt I will keep it. Rather, I'll likely sell it and the PW to help offset my investment in the two Fishers. The Fishers are very quiet anvils, relatively speaking and will make easier in the neighborhood. I stopped by our library today and asked them to get me Postman's book on ILL. Hopefully I'll see it someday. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFire Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 No offense meant to anyone but, the idea of selling a Hay to pay for a Fisher makes me physically sick to my stomach so I'll be throwing up the rest of tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 I've had at least 1 student in town that has been shut down from smithing by his neighbors---well he can still smith he just needs to apply for a permit 10 business days beforehand everytime before he lights up and pay a $25 fee and then if the permit is OK'd he can smith 1 day... Quieting down the HB might be another way to go but I can understand wanting to go with Fishers. My Fisher is my main shop anvil with the Trenton being the backup...and I live in the country! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 48 minutes ago, FoxFire said: No offense meant to anyone but, the idea of selling a Hay to pay for a Fisher makes me physically sick to my stomach so I'll be throwing up the rest of tonight. Andy? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 1 hour ago, FoxFire said: No offense meant to anyone but, the idea of selling a Hay to pay for a Fisher makes me physically sick to my stomach so I'll be throwing up the rest of tonight. Foxfire, Hope I didn't interrupt your regurgitation, As a newbie, perhaps you can educate me on the quality difference between the two makers. BTW: I actually live in a waterfront but very rural area with close neighbors only present on weekends, so the sound issue could be worked around if there was reason to do so. Do you just have a preference for HB or is there a real performance difference? If no material difference, I am about a 7 hour drive and have a guest room and cocktails and dinner available, should you want to rescue this one. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFire Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, jerryt said: Foxfire, Hope I didn't interrupt your regurgitation, As a newbie, perhaps you can educate me on the quality difference between the two makers. BTW: I actually live in a waterfront but very rural area with close neighbors only present on weekends, so the sound issue could be worked around if there was reason to do so. Do you just have a preference for HB or is there a real performance difference? If no material difference, I am about a 7 hour drive and have a guest room and cocktails and dinner available, should you want to rescue this one. Jerry NO worries, I'll live...There's nothing wrong with Fishers other than I don't care for them. My buddy had a very clean Fisher in his shop that was "my" anvil and I just never cared for it. I eventually convinced him to sell it when I brought over the 315lb Peter I had just bought. It was one of the Fishers with the overhanging face which I found obnoxious when cleaning/truing up 90* bends. I also found the ovalish shape of the horn less than ideal for what I tend to do and not all Fishers have this "issue" but the 2 I've worked (both of the same era) on did. Lastly, (and this says more about me than anything) the sound and feel of the anvil just didn't do anything for me. It just felt like a lump of metal to me. I can't stand a free ringing anvil but I do like a little ring so I don't feel like I'm talking to myself. I've owned 4-6 HB's and used a few more and they all were very cleanly forged anvils that have held up very well over the years. Maybe I've just been lucky but, you hardly read about someone hating their HB (for what it's worth). Honestly though just looking at my HB almost brings me as much joy as using it does. In other words, I think they are sexy well made tools which I find inspiring. In the end, there are a few concrete things about Fisher anvils that I do not like and most of what I like about Hay Budden anvils is personal. Some weirdo kids like Hot Wheels and the cool kids like me liked Matchbox...Hopefully some of this makes sense as I tend to overthink and loose my thoughts. Thank for the offer of food and drink but my budget would be blown just getting to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Is that one picture showing a thinned and delaminating top plate just behind the cutting table? My main anvil is a 260# Fisher, and I use it the most because my tinnitus is bad enough. Even with the Fisher I use earplugs. I wouldn't sand it at all, just using it will polish it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryt Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Yes, it looks like some work-hardened delamination. I've worn hearing aids for over 30 years so am also am bit shy of high toned rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFire Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 On 4/4/2016 at 7:39 PM, Frosty said: Andy? Frosty The Lucky. Nope, my name is Rylan but for $50 I can be whomever you want me to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 21 hours ago, FoxFire said: Nope, my name is Rylan but for $50 I can be whomever you want me to be... Your rhetorical style had me wondering if an old friend of mine from NJ had subbed. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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