So, I've recently realized that it's been entirely too long since I've made a good sword.(it's just been axes, axes, and more axes) I then remembered that this is beacause sutible bar stock for swords is really XXXXX expensive.  After a bit of searching, the most economical option I've found is chromoly, at $7.50 for a 3/16 x2 x36" bar. So, before I go spending money on it, I was wondering if anyone has some experience making swords with it? I mainly want to know: how does one (or does one even) heat treat it? Can it be forge welded? Does it make decent swords? And is there anything better (and "better" here being directly correlated to "economical") that I could be using? 

For the amount of time and effort it takes to make a proper sword I would definitely go with known, well researched tool steels that I had already had some experience heat treating at the knife level at least (probably 1084, O-1, W-1, or 5160, but that is just me).  I've used 4140 chromoly for making chisels, hammer heads and other struck tools, but never any cutlery.  Medium carbon 4140 can certainly be hardened and tempered, (probably not to the level of a good blade steel), but I am not aware of anyone using it for knives or swords currently (ref: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/272234-Knife-made-out-of-4140). Proper heat treating of a sword is more difficult than that of a knife, and typically demands larger and more sophisticated equipment, as I'm sure you are already aware if you have made "good swords" before.  It is also significantly more dangerous if you get it wrong, and plan on ever using the sword to cut anything (if you are just going for a wall hanger, why not just use cheap extruded aluminum, it will look fine and be a lot easier to machine).

You can get 1084 from the NJ Steel Baron (Aldo) at 3/16 x2 x 48" for $35.  Is the $28 difference really worth taking the chance?

If you are going on the cheap, and your time and fuel isn't worth that much, you can always look into leaf or even large coil spring cut offs from an auto spring shop.  The accepted wisdom is to use new material if at all possible, to attempt to avoid old springs with micro-fractures.  Will be a bunch of work in the forging process, as the dimensions will not necessary be ideal, but that's what blacksmithing is all about, right?

I have used chrome moly for swords before, which one ? there are many flavors. The world is a big place, so its hard to suggest what steel.  As with most things, answers  about steel types are regional.  the steels I get here will not be the same designations or alloy content as in Germany,  Let us know what part of the world your in and we may be of help

Ahh, I can see how that might help. I'm in southern Indiana, contestably the fifth most American place in America. 

The steel I I'm  looking at is 4130 chromoly, as specified by SAE. It's surplus/scrap from a company that builds race cars.  

Are you trying to make a sword or a wall hanger?  I'd like a higher carbon content in a blade.  My suggestion would be 5160 (with double the carbon content of 4130!) and you should be able to source it locally if you have any spring shops around.

From you questions and comments, I can see you need to read a lot more before making anything like a real sword.   At least read the pinned threads at the top of this page before asking about swords steel.  Much would have been answered and embarrassment avoided if you had.  Also I suggest you hook up with the members of "the meteorite mashers" group of the Indiana blacksmithing assn. they are down in SE Indiana.

4130 is used for stage combat weapons since it can be heat treated and tempered to a strong resilient and flexible item. It will not hold an effective edge however. It is used as a stage combat prop unsharpened and is used because if treated properly, will not shatter and hurt the spectators/actors. Are you making props, wall hangers, or actual swords meant for use? The answer to that will dictate the materials you need to use to get real quality results. 

Thanks for the info guys, that helps quite a bit. I think I'll order some of the 4130, as Ive been meaning to make a pair of reenactment swords. I'll keep y'all posted on how they go. 

As for the "real swords" you're so passionate about, I do of course intend to carry them into the Northern wastelands, and do battle with frost giants. So I gess I'll just wait until I've got a striker to help me draw out some RR clips. When I've got a little more money, I'll defiantly order some from NJ steel baron, they're an awesome resource! I hadn't heard of them, so thanks for that. 

P.S. The thanks goes out to everyone except Steve Sells, who was frankly pretty condescending. Sorry I had the audacity to not know something, and ask a question about it, Mr. Sells.  

Actually, I as not condescending, I was very polite trying to get you to pay attention, I even pointed you to a group in S Indiana for you to learn.  You had the audacity to ignore the 2 pinned posts that not only explained the questions you asked, but warned of how some will react to your post, the only change was when it became clear you refuse to read anything.

This section is about real swords, they are weapons and not play ground toys for children.  If you had read the pinned posts then you would know what's up and not be making these type comments.  FYI:  Odin already dealt with the Frost Giants so they are no longer a problem, check your facts. 

So you got your feelings hurt, well- too bad, working in the forge will get you hurt worse maybe even killed if you pay as little attention there as you have so far here.   As for your hurt feelings, you were warned in the pinned posts that you choose to ignore about the reactions to the " I wanna make a sord but I have no experience" will  get you, so in a sense you asked for it,  maybe if you slow down and pay attention you will learn something.

 

First thing to invest in when doing stage combat or re-enactment swords is a million dollar liability insurance policy; usually the metal is the cheapest part....

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

First thing to invest in when doing stage combat or re-enactment swords is a million dollar liability insurance policy; usually the metal is the cheapest part....

Actually,  the above applies to a lot of work done by independent craftspeople.  Product Liability adheres to a lot of smith work.   

I'm just more familiar with the stories of needing the insurance with the re-enactment blades...

Ayup, just another, "I don't know anything and not willing to read the basics but want to make swords" reaction to plain talk. I think the only advice you can use safely is, buy them from a prop shop and let THEIR insurance coverage and premiums handle the risks.

Frosty The Lucky.

So many play World of Warcraft and other games and think because they made a sword and "many axes" there, it actually means something in the real world.  Add in the policy of public schools teaching all ideas are good and they are set up for a good cry when the real world hits them

Having ideas are valid, but not all ideas are good or workable.  Its great to think up new ideas, but be prepared to find out they dont always work so well, dont take it so hard when it hits you.   Just listen and move on, many of us will be happy to show you how to do things.  I myself started wanting to make swords and I do make them now, but I first had to learn the basics.  Frankly if you refuse to listen or read, then project your disappointment caused by your lack of skills and understanding and then insist on acting out, you will never get past the WoW stage of sword making.  Calling me all the names in the book wont change that,  only personal study and hard work will.

One of the issues that people have trouble understanding is that many of us feel a responsibility to our fellow humans. So asking us to "set you adrift in a leaky skiff right above Niagara Falls"  when by your questions we *know* that you don't know enough to stay out of possibly lethal trouble will tend to get the knowledgeable folks to clam up or direct you to learning the basics first.

I was talking to a corporate VP and he interrupted to my answer to his elementary question  with " I Know"  I responded to his eruption with " If you knew the answer you wouldn't have asked the question"   My career did not prosper after that. 

Gave me a lot of satisfaction at the time though. 

The thing is I can't really hold it against the kids, from elementary school through college critical thinking is avoided, consequences are just mean. There's a darned good reason home schooled kids do so much better. Ever notice the main complaint from the Edu system about home schoolers? They lack proper socialization. I can't help but translate "socialization" to "Indoctrination."

A while back the roll in a village school had dropped below what the state would fund. Minimum enrollment being 8 students and it'd dropped to 5. There was a great and public wailing and gnashing of teeth from with dire predictions from the school system. What was the main complaint? They MIGHT have to lay off 7 administrators. That wasn't teachers, administrators! 7 administrators for 8 students not counting teachers. What in the name of logic do 7 administrators have to keep them busy with that small a student body? Not a word about educating the kids, just layoffs and loss of funding.

The village opted to just hire ONE teacher and do it themselves. I'll bet the quality goes up too.

Grrrrr.   Frosty The Lucky.

To quote RAH:  "Good intentions are no substitute for knowing how a buzz saw works"

4 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

To quote RAH:  "Good intentions are no substitute for knowing how a buzz saw works"

And they don't even slow evolution.

Frosty The Lucky.

On the topic of World of Warcraft metallurgy .....Back when I used to play that game I once had an adult player ask me where in the game he could go to mine bronze. Mine. Bronze. I guess that is why the internet invented the "/facepalm" .... for somebody being taught what an alloy was by an orc shaman in a video game.

Now now you old curmudgeons, haha
Video games have heavily influenced me over the years, and while they are not the reason I began forging they certainly still supply inspiration.

I wish I was on IFI before attempting my first sword, would have saved me so much time if I had Steve to clue me in. 

Mr Maximilian, keep on forging buddy; have you made any large knives yet? What's your HT lvl?

We're keeping our fingers crossed for you Theo. You'll make curmudgeon too if you work at it long enough.

I never got into online gaming but in the day I played D&D I too often got pegged to come up with superior blades, armor, etc. because I blacksmith. I got gigged a number of times by the DM because I didn't know how it's "really" done. EVERYBODY knows is a red flag for "I don't have a clue."

Frosty The Lucky.

I am still waiting for my bobble head of me from that 3D printer of his....

 

Now there's a potential product line! The 3D printed bobble hammer curmudgeon. A surly looking fellow standing behind an anvil with a spring mounted hammer arm and head. They'd be perfect on the shelf under the rear window of the family sedan. Oooh, rig the eyes so they glow red when you apply the brakes. Who'd want to tailgate a surly looking fellow with glowing red eyes hammering on an anvil and nodding to the beat?

Frosty The Lucky.

"  bobble hammer curmudgeon "

as long as it is hammering a sord, i want one.