besserheimerphat Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I'mean getting really close to having a functional forge! This afternoon I put in the kaowool and sprayed it all down with a good dose of rigidizer. In the next couple of days I'll put the ITC-100TH on it ($67 per pint from Seattle Pottery Supply). I put a 1.5 x 2.5 inch door in the back for venting or passing long stock, and used some scrap soft firebrick to make a plug when I want it closed up. The last thing I need is a regulator, shutoff valve and hose and I'll be ready to start banging metal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Seattle Pottery Supply is who we bought zirconium silicate flour from. Rather than using full bricks for the floor running one layer of ceramic blanket and overlaying it with a split fire brick works better. Just as durable and insulated where the flame is hitting. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofast Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 This is constructed out of propane bottle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Blargostadt Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Just one burner or are you going to have two? Are you going to use a door on the front or leave it open as shown? Would be interested in any updated pics, I see this is a couple of months old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 When you change out the insulated fire bricks for a half brick, or better still a kiln shelf, don't worry about piecing in insulation over the floor area; the rigidizer will also work as glue to bond everything. And, says you will change out the insulated brick; either before or after it crumbles to rubble. I assume you are going to use hard fire bricks to make movable stacked walls in front of the open ends; don't for get to paint ITC -100 on the heated side of the bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besserheimerphat Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 I haven't made much progress recently. It took me forever to source an inexpensive regulator but I finally found a guy that sells refurbished ones (got a Harris that runs up to 20 psi) and got the tubing, fittings, etc. I'm hoping to get the ITC coatings done this weekend. We'd decided to become foster parents and the training and house prep necessary to get licensed has taken up a lot of my free time lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Do NOT rush things, getting in a hurry will screw things up faster than about anything. For the price of 1 pint of ITC-100 you could've bought a new regulator and a pint of Plistex and maybe the fittings. ITC priced itself completely out of my wallet. Good for you wanting to foster kids. Every kid deserves a good home, puts you in the hero category in my book. Frosty The Lucky, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besserheimerphat Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 It works! I fired it up for the first time tonight. I only played with it for about 15 minutes because I don't have a great hot work area set up yet - I don't think my wife will want me using our metal patio table as a work bench... I ran a couple minutes at 5 psi, a couple minutes at 10 psi and a couple more minutes at 15 psi before I couldn't wait any longer and had to stick a piece of steel inside. The steel is the tapered end of a 3/8" square bar that was the first thing I ever smithed in a class. It only took a few minutes before the big end of the taper would have been red enough to start hammering. I've got another 5 psi capacity in my regulator, and will eventually stack bricks in front to block it up a bit. I do have a 2" x 3" hole in the back to vent, along with a same-sized piece of soft firebrick to use for a plug as needed. The forge is a 30lb propane tank with two layers of 1" Kaowool insulation. The floor is a full soft fire brick, with the intent of providing more structure for the floor. Everything is coated with a thin coat of 3000F refractory cement. I then coated the cement with ITC-100. Right now I'm really happy and excited. I am a little nervous about the longevity of the refractory cement - it was really difficult to spread directly on the rigidized Kaowool and I know the thickness is inconsistent which will cause stress as it heats unevenly. BUT, I now have the wherewithal to make a better decision when it comes time to reline it. The burner is a 3/4" T-Rex Hybrid Burner, running at 15 psi in the picture. The burner is in the same configuration as when I posted the photos/videos in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Pile up some firebrick in front of it leaving a slot to put your steel in on the right hand, "hot" side and it will be much more efficient. Remember the old saying "Close the Door!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besserheimerphat Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Pile up some firebrick in front of it leaving a slot to put your steel in on the right hand, "hot" side and it will be much more efficient. Remember the old saying "Close the Door!". "Were you born in a barn?" LOL Yeah, the local stove shop has hard firebrick for $2.50 a piece. I'm going to pick up a few, paint one side with ITC-100 and stack them in front to help hold the heat in. And there are a couple local salvage places that usually have metal tool carts for sale, so I need to pick one of those up for cheap. One of the salvage places also has some stainless work tables that look like their from a restaurant kitchen - might need to see how much they want for those too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 My neighbor turned a large octagonal barn with courtyard into a house; I wondered about his possible birth location...I used a cart from a junked propane grill as it was the cheapest I could find. Of course I have over the years put more bracing and high grade wheels as I needed them and found them cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 For your own sake please cover the exposed ends of the Kaowool insulation. It is visibly still showing as loose and will degrade further in use leading to fibers in the air and eventually your lungs. If you coat it with a rigidizer solution (sodium silicate, colloidal silica...), first that will harden and allow better coating with the refractory cement. Otherwise just an initial light misting with water will help keep the wool in place while it is coated, but the silica rigidizer works much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besserheimerphat Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 9 hours ago, Latticino said: For your own sake please cover the exposed ends of the Kaowool insulation. It is visibly still showing as loose and will degrade further in use leading to fibers in the air and eventually your lungs. If you coat it with a rigidizer solution (sodium silicate, colloidal silica...), first that will harden and allow better coating with the refractory cement. Otherwise just an initial light misting with water will help keep the wool in place while it is coated, but the silica rigidizer works much better. Thanks. The exposed end was liberally sprayed with rigidizer (as was the every other kaowool surface) and is very crusty to the touch - does it still need the refractory cement on it? I've already had significant exposure to kaowool during my 8 years as a test engineer, insulating industrial control valves for high temperature testing. Fortunately none of those involved high velocity gas moving directly against the kaowool so fibers probably weren't blown into the air, but I know I cut/pulled apart the stuff without a respirator for a long time. Don't get me wrong, I want to make sure my family and pets stay safe and healthy, but as for me, I could develop issues as a result of my previous job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm particularly sensitive regarding this topic as I worked at installations with no rigidizer and high heat/velocities for many years. Have consequent damage to my lungs and hope to have others avoid same. The rigidizer is a good first step, but as you can see from your photo it is a fragile layer, and being transparent difficult to tell when damaged. For what it is worth I'd put at least a skim coat of furnace cement over the exposed wool. Since you plan on building doors of some kind this will also protect this area when you operate the doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm in the camp of preventing all the breathing hazards you can. You can dilute a kiln wash till it's like paint wet the ceramic blanket and paint it on. It will encapsulate the fibers a lot better than the rigidizer is obviously. Once you mount baffles (doors) the contained heat will fire the kiln wash and you can apply it several times till the blanket is hard to the touch. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 This burner is known for a t-e-n-d-e-nc-y to burn lean; it wants too; it wants to a whole lot! Most people think that the choke is just there to make them easier to ignite; it is there to allow you to control those burners and keep them burning neutral; not lean...just a word to the wise from someone who helped develop them in the first place. Otherwise, you will be replacing the guts of your forge years earlier than you need to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: This burner is known for a t-e-n-d-e-nc-y to burn lean; it wants too; it wants to a whole lot! Most people think that the choke is just there to make them easier to ignite; it is there to allow you to control those burners and keep them burning neutral; not lean...just a word to the wise from someone who helped develop them in the first place. Otherwise, you will be replacing the guts of your forge years earlier than you need to What dia. jet does he put in them Mike? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If you only use your choke to maintain a neutral flame, you are missing out on a huge amount of the burners capability. By adjusting the choke, you adjust the air:fuel ratio, simultaneously adjusting the flame temperature and the atmosphere (reducing-less reducing in most cases, but if the gas jet is small enough to run lean at fully-open choke, reducing-neutral-oxidizing as you open the choke. Maximum temperature is usually around Neutral). A lousy quality video showing the effect of adjusting the choke on a miniforge I built for bladesmithing. The choke adjustment is screwed on mine and by a sliding sleeve on the T-Rex, but the principle still holds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp73eBS4LTk The HybridBurners website shows a 14-35 jet as standard for a T-Rex, Frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Outside of adjusting the air fuel ratio I don't see the utility of using a choke to control output. Adjusted neutral or slightly rich and temperature control with the psi or a needle valve is exquisitely fine. You've talked about using the choke for temperature control before and I've never understood the reason. I'm not bone picking I just don't get it. Thanks for the jet size, I haven't spent much time on Rex's site. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I'm not a blacksmith. I don't have a high level of skill. I certainly don't have a good eye for judging temperature by colour. I am relatively easily distracted. There are definite advantages, at least to me, of being able to set the forge temperature/atmosphere at the temperature I want the steel to reach. I'd expect the same to apply to many beginners. If I run the forge at, for example, the maximum recommended forging temperature for the particular steel being worked, I will have the most reducing forge atmosphere consistent with reaching that temperature. If I get distracted and leave the work in for longer than intended, it will not overheat, because it cannot exceed the forge temperature, and it will suffer relatively little Oxidation because the atmosphere is strongly reducing. For bladesmithing, which is more in line with my interest than blacksmithing, the ability to set the forge temperature low with a very reducing atmosphere and hold it more-or-less indefinitely is very useful when heat-treating steels that require a soak at temperature. Tuning a burner with a well-implemented adjustable choke is easy: start with a jet that will give a neutral-to-slightly-lean burn and do the fine-tuning on the choke: no need to shut down and change or trim jets. Once tuned, it can be run as a normal fixed-choke burner (it's easy enough to mark the choke so that you can return to that adjustment). The choke adjustment does not replace pressure adjustment. It is in addition to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 i see what you're doing that will work. Unfortunately it's not the better nor the more accurate way. This is exactly why you keep a notebook. When you have the forge's temperature right for what you're doing you note the pressure at the gauge. In short order you will have exact records of pressure settings and temperatures. No guesswork involved at all. Using a choke for a throttle has a level of guesswork that can't be eliminated even if you mark the burner for choke positions. An inexpensive gauge has much finer marks and adjusts automatically for barometric pressure. This is why the correct term is psiG the G standing for gauge. A strait notation of PSI is absolute pressure and not the same thing at all. Anyway. adjusting the pressure will result in consistent reasonably predictable temperature adjustment if you allow for things like relative humidity and ambient temperature. The choke adjusts the air fuel ratio and this is an easy eyeball adjustment with a little practice at any temperature. Changing the forge atmosphere to adjust temperature also alters chemistry for no good reason. Of course that's just my experience and considered opinion. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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