Joel OF Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Anyone else in the same boat? I literally cannot draw to scale with any confidence/understanding of what I'm drawing. I pretty much have to draw 1:1 scale (typically with chalk on plywood painted with chalkboard paint) so I can "feel" what something is going to be like in the flesh. E.g is the gap in that panel wide enough for a burglar's hand to get through to the padlock on the other side of the gate? Does that fire screen look too heavy for an eldery person to lift? Does that balustrade come to a point above my centre of gravity... I'm making up examples off the top of my head, but y'know what I'm getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Nothing wrong with full scale drawings. They are GREAT for fabrication as the metal can be exaclyt matched to the paper design, Get an draftsman architectural scale or engineering scale. They are either a triangular shaped scale with 6 different scales, or flat with 4 different scales, one scale on each side. Flip it around to the size and scale you want to draw and measure in real units, only reduced in size. By using a 50% or half size scale, you can save some paper and size, and should still be able to judge distances, and etc. It will take some practice to see 6 inches (half scale) and visualize 12 inches (full scale) but it is not as bad or as difficult as you think. Nothing wrong with then making a full size drawing of the parts or section you want to see, or have more detail in a specific area, or see exact size relationship. It is done all the time. Cal it a detail drawing if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 another good drawing broad set up I use for layout work is a 4' X 8' white wall board the kind you see bathrooms it cleans up easily & Dry erase markers will work on it well ! I have one on the shop wall in the work area with a list of shop goals to get done - eqt repair needed - paying jobs supply's needed to order & so on PS -- Joel if you can't draw a scale you need to take an ART class Ha just had to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 1 hour ago, IronWolf said: PS -- Joel if you can't draw a scale you need to take an ART class Ha just had to I can draw to scale, but I can't visualize in reduced scale whether for example 16mm square bar is better for a gate infill than 25 x 8mm flat. Again, examples made up off the top of my head, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I really empathize with you Joel. I have the same problem. I've worked with paper and pencil drafting, and have worked with computer drafting programs. Still run into differences between what is on paper and the actual object. One thing that I've found to help is Engineering Isometric drafting pads. Takes a little getting accustomed to but they help with three dimensional shapes There are even little plastic templates that allow you to draw accurate circles and ellipses. It looks like a graph paper with x,y,z axis drawn. No substitute for a good lofting of the design but a great help sitting on the couch in the evening and thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Tough this creative process ain't it! When I was a schoolboy and obsessed with motorbikes and go-karts I used to draw them on any available surface... preferable leaning over or drifting round a bend. Trying to get the wheels drawn in perspective was the key... I can still do a 4 second motor bike and a 5 second go-kart. Practice to play with perspective and balance of shapes and spaces. Unfortunately however snappy the sketch...when it comes to translating that robust, sexy, drawn form into an actual object you quite often find that what looks great in the sketch turns out to have 150mm (6") square bars for the lighter elements of the frame so adjustments have to be made. It is one of the uses of Computer 3D modelling...in fact last couple of days having done a series of sketches I am currently testing proportions and sizes by modelling our proposed kitchen extension in order to get a precise eye level view and accurate illustration of what we will end up with. Whereas I can do the perspective sketch very fast, the unforgiving nature of the CGI means it will not allow you to fudge. If you draw it at 50mm (2") square it will look like 50mm (2") square. Although you will eventually save time by not making mistakes in the design stage, modelling something in any detail does take such a long time relative to the 4 second sketch... No shortcuts to this, just years of experience which hopefully prevents you from making mistakes. Though as someone said on here I think...that experience is gained by making mistakes! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Every few years there's some advance in design technology that's supposed to be the end of common design problems. Building Information Modeling BIM is supposed to be "4-Dimensional" in that they're tying time to the design. Words gone around for years that the next dimension would be money. We still have floor plans with ceiling designs that cause pinch points for major utility lines like ductwork and electrical conduits. The grand solution is called "interference drawings" and I'm told that the entire building system is drawn in 3D and in 1:1 scale. The architect/engineer can "fly" through the design and view areas like the plumbing chase to see if the pipes fit. If I understand correctly, the design is simply parsed out into sheets with an assigned scale. The cool thing is that any changes in the large scale detail renderings, is carried through to ALL the sheets. I can say that this practice hasn't made it's way to any of the commercial construction projects I've bid in the last nine years. I strongly suspect that CGI design has hobbled Architects enough that they're not eager to take on the challenges of a 3D system that locks their detail renderings to their overall plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I like graph paper it has a built in scaling device. You can transfer your drawings to the floor or a matchbook cover accurately with minimum hassle. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Joel, what is the big challenge you are facing? Drawing to scale only or does this translate to final product challenges. I saw your examples but struggled to really understand what was really troubling. As a thought. Draw "not to scale" a conceptual design. Re-draw, play with it, discard, etc. I started doing some woodworking several years back. My design process looked kinda like this: 1. Conceptual Sketch (numerous, varied, restarting over many times). Often these were vary crude and numerous on a single piece of paper in order to easily look over the various ideas. Look at other designs. Google some pics maybe. Looks for anything similar in concept or function to draw from around you or in daily life. 2. While doing #1 also list out basic requirements (can't let burglar get hand through opening to pad lock... your example). As the basic requirements multiplied the concept had to change or iterate. I like this part. List all functional or aesthetic (or whatever) requirements you want the final product to deliver. 3. Once the concept, not to scale, matched all basic requirements (conceptually), then and only then did the final dimensioned drawings need to be made. The drawings did not need to be to scale. But the dimensions had to work. And with wood, as well as blacksmithing, depending on complexity, joinery and sequencing are a big factor. As too burglar hands, make a design that doesn't let any hands through. Make that basic requirement force a creative solution that adds asthetic value as well as the functional basic requirement. I also have a rule on the wall of my woodshop/smithy. It has to be able to get out of the door and/or into the door of wherever it needed to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_K Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Just a random thought, but... Remember overhead projectors? I'd think that one might be able to pick one up somewhat cheaply these days. You could transfer a sketch to acetate, project it at the desired size onto a wall, and determine 'thief accessibility' that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 5 hours ago, Matt_K said: Just a random thought, but... Remember overhead projectors? I'd think that one might be able to pick one up somewhat cheaply these days. You could transfer a sketch to acetate, project it at the desired size onto a wall, and determine 'thief accessibility' that way. The old Epidiascope we had in the art room at school projected a positive image direct from book or paper sketch, cuts out the transfer acetate stage, even if that is by photocopier. Mind you an iPhone to photograph the sketch and a basic digital projector would be more versatile and easier to source nowadays...I used to project 35mm slides for similar purposes in another era! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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