Well as far as My first tongs...

[Daswulf]

welp, I made my first set of tongs tonight based on TechnicusJoes RR spike tongs. Felt like I started off correct but it went odd from there. My fault of course. Took me about 3 hours while relaxing the evening with some beer   but as much as I'm disappointed in my work on them they do function. I wouldn't say they would work for generations because of my mistakes. But I accept that for my first set. I'll improve from there I hope. I can tell where I screwed up. That little crap s hook was made using these quickly just to try them out.  i know they are poop, but any criticism may help my focus.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2015 by Daswulf

[seldom (dick renker)]

as long as they work for thats what counts. looks come later after you have made a few

 

[Dogsoldat]

Off to a decent start.  Few more goes and they will be looking even better.  Spend a little more time refining the different shapes and those would have been that much better.  I'll bet you wore yourself out drawing out the reins.  Quite  a bit of work  there.  Best advise I can give right now would be to watch as many different tong making videos as you can over and over,  but especially Brian Brazeals.  Pay attention to how he sneaks up on his finished shapes, that and his technique for drawing.  But even better than that would be to try and find someone nearby.  Keep at it they will improve.   

[Daswulf]

Thanks but I couldn't let that stand on my part. I went up tonight and tried again. I'm way happier with the second pair as far as confidence that they would hold up. So here's the second attempt beside the first. 

 

  I'll bet you wore yourself out drawing out the reins.  Quite  a bit of work  there.  Best advise I can give right now would be to watch as many different tong making videos as you can over and over,  but especially Brian Brazeals.  Pay attention to how he sneaks up on his finished shapes, that and his technique for drawing.  But even better than that would be to try and find someone nearby.  Keep at it they will improve.   

the reins kicked my butt being RR spikes lol. i'll keep at it and keep looking for better ways. i had spikes laying around and i liked the tutorial on YT.  looked easier then it is for someone starting out but i'm not shy to keep trying.

 

[Everything Mac]

Those are much better. keep it up. 

 

Andy

[Daswulf]

Thanks Mac, I will.

 

[Frosty]

Oh yeah, those came out much more uniformly. Keep the first set for when you're feeling down about not getting something right you can pull them out and see how far you've come. Learning this craft is a lifelong exercise in failure analysis. You'll always see the flaws in your work even when nobody else does. You'll always be looking for ways to eliminate the flaws. It's what makes the craft so satisfying on a soul deep level.

As a suggestion making the bits a little longer will give you more size and position range and it'll make adjusting them easier.

That's a heck of an improvement you're on track. Well done.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Well spoken Frosty. It is a learning experience. I'm already mentally taking notes on how to do better next time. Good advice on the bits, that will be high on the list. I could have done better on the reins as well but I have to admit that that was due to my impatience to get em done. (Admittedly my hand was a bit sore too) That shouldn't ever be an excuse for poor finish work.  

  I will keep the old ones hanging around as a reminder. And I'll continue to make more. 

[TwistedCustoms]

Much better on round two! Don't stop while you have momentum, make a pair every day for a month. You can never have to many tongs and the practice drawing out will cut your time down on every set you make. Great job and keep the pictures coming!

[Daswulf]

Thanks TwistedCustoms, I'll keep at it and I need the practice anyway. Also will get pictures of the improvements. Might give others hope that are making their first pair to just keep at it.

 

  

[Everything Mac]

Give it a while and do a Mk3. Then post all three next to each other. I bet the improvement will be noticeable again. 

 

All the best 

Andy

[Frosty]

Have you made a spring fuller to help drawing things out with yet? So easy to make so much fun to use. Spring fullers! 

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

If you don't have a spring fuller made up yet, and they work great BTW, just hammer and draw out over near the end of your horn.  Makes for a smoother draw than using the edge of your face.  When I have used the face edge, on occasion, cracks have developed.  Maybe doing it too cool, but yellow to orange should be hot enough.

Edited September 16, 2015 by arkie

[Frosty]

I usually use my straight pein on the end of the horn before I get out my spring fuller. I address the anvil from the horn end for this technique.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

All good suggestions, Thanks guys! It dosnt hurt to experiment a bit to see what works better for me. I dont have a straight pein yet tho i have enough hammers to modify one like i saw somewhere?. I've bought boxes of hammers cheap when at auctions or here and there at the fleamarket. chisels as well. 

 I did make a spring fuller and like it, but have mainly been using it for isolating sections of metal, and could be using it to greater potential.

 There are a ton of tools i could be making to make my work easier, and if i look around i'm sure i have the material laying around to make them.  i'll try the anvil horn and fuller next time and see which one works better for me. I was actually using the face edge because I had never tried the technique. Technicus Joe made it look easy, but i do want to try out other drawing methods and your two are pretty common sense that i should be trying. And i'd think less traumatic to the steel.  I guess i was just following the instructions for the ones i was making, and after a successful (not perfect but usefull) pair i think i can try some different drawing methods. 

   There's more then one way to skin a cat. (who skins cats anyway? who comes up with these sayings?)

[Everything Mac]

It's the age old "Ask 5 blacksmith's how to do a task and they'll give you 6 different ways to make it" 

I wonder if beginners should be checking out the way "Theironworkshop" on youtube makes his tongs. - Ok the first part about upsetting the bar might not be the easiest but you could start with a thicker piece and draw out the handle. 

Making Blacksmith Tongs - 1

Do you have access to a welder? 

 

Andy

[Daswulf]

I have a welder, and i have upset metal with success. i'll check it out.

 

[Everything Mac]

Ok then. You want to make a Mark Aspery style "Smoosh-a-matic" - http://calsmith.org/Resources/Documents/technical_documents/techdocs_smooshomatic.pdf

 

If you make drawing dies for it it should help a lot. Or as suggested above just draw out over the horn. 

Andy

[Daswulf]

wow looks simple and effective. hehe Smoosh-a-matic.  how bout cut a groove on each side of the square pipe and add spring ears to the top die (off shoot pieces), and springs to either side to hold it open so you don't waste time lifting it to get the piece in?  hammer will squish it all down anyway and the springs just need to be strong enough to hold the top die up. i'll add it to my memory banks. Thanks

 

[arkie]

I usually use my straight pein on the end of the horn before I get out my spring fuller. I address the anvil from the horn end for this technique.

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty, that works great, too.  I have done it and it really draws out the steel quickly.  Hard fullering tends to beat up my spring fuller. 

[Frosty]

I made my little spring fuller y simply bending some 5/8" round stock so there was a tight hair pin section that drops into the hardy hole one leg lays flat on the anvil and the other arches up then down parallel for the top die.

I use it mostly for starting shoulders evenly on both sides of a piece though it works well for drawing. For general drawing I tend to work whatever part of the horn seems to work best and use my 32oz. turning hammer. I'll use my straight pein if I really have to draw something down. Say a RR spike to tong reins. I like laying leaves lengthwise on the horn and using the cross pein to draw laterally and texture. I use the larger radius cross pein to draw and the sharp one to texture.

You DO have more than one of each hammer don't you?

I do use the horn quite a bit, just not for turning rings, scrolls, etc.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Well, in fear of forbidden I'll keep this short if I can. 

Instead of making tongs tonight and drawing them out in different methods I decided to experiment.  I took 3 rr spikes and drew them out as close as possible in 3 different methods. In my fuller, on the anvil horn with a cross pein (it's what I got) and on the edge of the anvil face.  Here are the results. Stop at the picture if you'd like to guess which is which. ( no cheating.) 

 

[Daswulf]

ok so alot of text i added ended up in the forbidden mist or something

from left to right. drawn out on the anvil face edge, the anvil horn and cross pein hammer, and my fuller.

 the results for me were that the fuller won with the least deformation to the piece as i drew it out. not that it matters but i (feel) it was quicker and maybe better for me. both other methods worked about as quick with (for me) the anvil edge being the slowest. 

i used my 2 1/2 Quickwerk hammer for the first and last but switched to a lighter more broad cross pein for the anvil face which led to faster striking there. 

thats my spring fuller in the pic..any advice or improvement ideas are welcome. 

and i gatta include my annoying but ever bothersome shop cat Boots. gatta love him.( or sometimes not when he is annoying me)

[Frosty]

Ayup, that's a spring fuller made by a fellow with a welder. Looks just fine.

Do you draw down round, or square then round it up? The better technique is to draw square it minimizes the chance of "fish mouthing" the stock, is easier to keep uniform and takes a lot fewer blows for the effect. The little anagram is SOR Square, Octagonal, Round.

Another bit of hammer control technique that makes a HUGE difference is learning to strike straight through the anvil. You want to visualize driving the center of the hammer through the center of the anvil and put the work in the way. When you're drawing the tong reins they tended to bend up or down. Yes? This is because the center of the hammer was slightly off center of the anvil face, corner or horn. If the far end bends down the hammer is striking on the far side of center. If it bends up it's striking on the near side of center.

It's normal for new folk to chase the work with the hammer and it makes drawing a uniform taper a bear. Really long tapers are a LOT easier because there is so much to blend plannishing. Try making nails and you'll see what I mean by wandering blows. Learn to strike ONE spot on the anvil per operation and move the work by measured increments.

It's not as easy as it sounds but is the heart of hammer control.

You do realize Boots is saying, "A little to the right two legs." with a hint of, "if you let my food dish get half empty again I'm going to crap in your shoe."

Cats are good people, I like cats, dogs . . . well, mammals.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

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