Jeff Jabben Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Are bellows absolutely required for steel blacksmithing with charcoal? I'm very aware that bellows are important and how helpful they are but as a propane blacksmith converting to charcoal I'm wanting to know if it's possible to use a lot more charcoal in replace of the bellows. Me and my family go to camp grounds a lot and I like nothing more than to forge outside and get to teach on goers and keep myself busy. I made a portable charcoal forge but there is no insert for a tueryre although one could be added, the next best thing is a short pipe and my lungs. Bottom line, Can the air pressure/cfm be replaced by more charcoal/better insulation? Max temps I will be reaching 95% of the time are 2200 degrees F. Thanks - Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Fire needs oxygen. You have to feed the fire oxygen someway. So, if you have no power or crank blower then you will need bellows. If you are using charcoal in camp grounds make sure there is nothing flammable nearby. Charcoal throws off a lot of fireflies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'm curious what others will say but here's my .02 if you're planning on using a forge, yes you need to have some kind of air supply. It doesn't have to be bellows, it could be as simple as a hair drier or bathroom exhaust fan. You don't want to build a fire in a forge that is goin to be capable of drawing in the necessary air to reach forging temps. If you're plannin on using a camp fire you might can get away without any external air supply. I have had steel at the lower end of working temps using a small fire and got steel to med orange in larger ones. What I'd suggest is doing some more reading through the solid fuel forges section. There is truckloads of useful information there (everywhere on the site really) and it will take some time to go through and find your answers but if you look hard enough im sure you'll find somethin helpful there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jabben Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'll give it a go, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You could possibly create a chimney effect but I am pretty sure that the pipe required would be more of an inconvenience than a small hand crank forge blower. On the other hand, if you are patient enough yes, you could get away without a bellows or blower but heats would take at least a half hour and wouldn't get any nearly to 2200. more like 12-1400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) I play with charcoal quite a lot, first, any form of botom blast is les than ideal, it can be made to work well but typicaly you end up with to much air, so you need a deaper fire to overcome it and you end up with an abundance of fire fleas side draft is a beter deal, start with an 8" deap pan or box, bore a hole to exept a peice of 3/4-1" black pipe so the botom of it is 3" of the bottom, fill the box with dirt or sand to the top and excivate a bowl 6-8" across and one inch below the pipe. It helps to place two hard fire bricks under the pipe and two with a hole cut between them as the back wall of the bowl. With any non person powerd air you need a way to control it or you will cool the charcoal, and send fire fleas every were Edited July 22, 2015 by Charles R. Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Welcome aboard Jeff, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI crowd live within visiting distance.If you've used a camp fire as a forge you already know how hot you can expect. If you have a copy of "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander Weygers then you have a good example of a self drafting charcoal forge. You'll still need something for a pot and a stack.If you set up somewhere with a good prevailing breeze you can use something to form a funnel to a blow pipe for a draft. Yeah, I've done both.Lastly if you have a hill or bank you can dig a trench in and cover you can build a hill furnace.You can make a perfectly workable bellows with a paper bag or a piece of tubing and a feather duster.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Might have to pin Jerry down and pen a book "the epediant blacksmith" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You can make a perfectly workable bellows with a paper bag or a piece of tubing and a feather duster.Frosty The Lucky.I've seen the paper bag trick but never heard of a feather duster one. Would you mind enlightening us? Normally I'd do a search before asking but honestly I don't even know how to begin searching for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 when you put a fether duster in a pip it acts as a valve and a pump. Pull up and the fethers let in the air, push down and the fethers block the pipe and push the air, two sets and a bit of more pipe and your slave pumps the two alternetly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks, Charles, for clearin that up for me. I might have to try that just for the fun of it. It might also be somethin fun to do with my two year old who loves to build anythin and learns just as quick as I do lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Pvc pipe fitings, the compleat modern blacksmith shows an illistration of a simular setup, bambo, mud and fethers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I said feather duster because I couldn't think of how to describe the thing. Charles has it right including the book reference I couldn't think of.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Also look into the simple to build chinese box bellows. (and note a smithing bellows doesn't need to be huge a small forge can get by with a small bellows that is very handy around a camp/cooking fire when not in use blowing into a black iron pipe used as a side blown tuyere) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I use a double action bed inflator on one of my forges, rather zen to useIf one wants to go early iron age a trip to a fire place store and a pait of fire place beloows will work too. Or build a set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jabben Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Thanks for all the information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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