stroupe63 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I have a question on forge maintenance. My forge is about five months old and getting a really rusty looking color inside.When should I think about doing something to the inside ?Here are some pics showing what it looks like. Here's what the inside looks like After five minutes warm upSo what do you think needs to be done to this forge to keep it preforming efficiently. All suggestions are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroupe63 Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Good answer Thomas. That's what I wanted hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Ditto Thomas.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Well, I'll try to stir up the hornet's nest. You might want to paint the inside with Plistix or Metrikote Infrared Reflective to help reflect the heat back into the forge. I have noticed that sometimes my forge may get some discoloration so I just re-paint the interior which turns it back to white and so that it again has the reflective benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Kid of wimpy hornets there Wayne, not a sting in the nest. I mean really I can't even rib you for spelling. That's no fun at all. <sigh>Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Has anyone ever had hornets build a nest in their forge????! Had them set up home in my grill one summer, revenge for all the stings over the years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 If you get a hornet's net in your forge you are not forging often enough. They don't build 'em overnight. Frosty, am I supposed to put in a few misspellings just to keep you on your toes?I'm leaving this morning for the Batson Blade Symposium and will be back Sunday evening. See you all there or we'll visit here when I get back. If you are there come by and visit. I will have IFI t-shirts and Steve Sells How to make knives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You said you were going to stir up a hornet's nest and got my hopes up. I mean all you left me was nothing to twigg you about. What fun is that?Best wishes to you for the symposium, safe trip, safe return.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I have a nasty puddle of scale in the bottom of my gasser, so do I chip it out and repaint with ITC100, or do I just throw kitty litter over top of it and forge on. The crude gets on the stock if it sits in the forge too long while I am working multiple pieces and the crude wicks up the stock... Last thing I want is more scale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 what is the bottom of your forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 NC Whisper Momma two burner blacksmith model with open end ports, the bottom is a hard fire brick split I am pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I have a nasty puddle of scale in the bottom of my gasser, so do I chip it out and repaint with ITC100, or do I just throw kitty litter over top of it and forge on. The crude gets on the stock if it sits in the forge too long while I am working multiple pieces and the crude wicks up the stock... Last thing I want is more scale...I know a certain moderator that will remain nameless who has the exact same thing going on. I have pulled taffy out of that puddle before. I think he changed the brick, or are you still sticking in that puddle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Is it actually a puddle? If so just dip it out, I made a little glassy crud dipper for my old forge. It's flattened on the end like a screw driver and bent in a 90* so I can dip, hook and remove slag a little at a time.Are you welding? Flux is caustic at welding temps and silicates dissolve in caustics so it will either eat holes in the brick or vitrifying it. Once fire brick starts to vitrify it's melting temp begins to fall so the vitrification zone will expand.If dipping the goo out doesn't do it just replace the split brick. I do.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Its a puddle at temp... No I am not welding in it and using flux. Just doing production work with piles of steel in there all hot for a little too long. I probably need to try to tune things a bit better with the pressure and the ball valve. I normally run it full out, so as I forge out thinner I need to get in the habit of turning down the pressure and the volume of gas I am using. In that way a coal forge is easier, you just crank less as the stock gets smaller... But I don't pull out nearly as many sparklers out of the gasser than the coal forge;-) I just leave a puddle of scale in the bottom when I am working 6-12 pieces at a time...Its a pain to tear the body of the forge down and replace the bottom brick, and the liner is in good shape except for the puddle. I will see about getting it up to temp and scraping some of the junk out, and then throw some kitty litter in there, til I get a welding plate to stick in there to catch the goop as it drips off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroupe63 Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 Sooo... what does the kitty litter do ? I am new to this and haven't learned the tricks yet. Thanks Steve, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) A little off topic to the original question but who is the maker of the wet grinder, show on the bench in your first pic. It does not look that old, is it something you can still buy new? Can you show a more detailed picture with the grinder and motor? Edited April 10, 2015 by kubiack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroupe63 Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hi Kubiack,I believe this wet grinder was made in the 70's. It was sold by the Prairie Tool Company Inc. Prairie Du Chien , Wisconsin.It is a model G 7 with a 10" grinding wheel powered by a 1/3 hp motor.Here's some more pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Its a puddle at temp... No I am not welding in it and using flux. Just doing production work with piles of steel in there all hot for a little too long. I probably need to try to tune things a bit better with the pressure and the ball valve. I normally run it full out, so as I forge out thinner I need to get in the habit of turning down the pressure and the volume of gas I am using. In that way a coal forge is easier, you just crank less as the stock gets smaller... But I don't pull out nearly as many sparklers out of the gasser than the coal forge;-) I just leave a puddle of scale in the bottom when I am working 6-12 pieces at a time...Its a pain to tear the body of the forge down and replace the bottom brick, and the liner is in good shape except for the puddle. I will see about getting it up to temp and scraping some of the junk out, and then throw some kitty litter in there, til I get a welding plate to stick in there to catch the goop as it drips off.If it's just melted steel slag in the bottom of your forge, scrape it out while it's still melted. If you let it stick to the fire brick like clinker it will gradually lower the vitrification temp of the brick. Fire brick is a high Alumina oxide silicate ceramic and vulnerable to iron fusing to it, you have to get the slag off the fire brick or it will literally become part of the fire brick ceramic and lower it's vitrification temp to a melting temperature. I don't know the correct terms but it turns the refractory ceramic to a slag goop puddle. Once the fire brick melts dumping bentonite (clay kitty litter) on it doesn't fix it, helps temporarily but it's not a fix.The puddle's melting temp will lower and the puddle will grow. Eventually it will ruin the floor of the forge and you will have to change it. Scraping the slag or other contaminants off the floor of your forge is basic maintenance. I don't think forge manufacturers cover this in the operator's manuals but they should. Heck, do they even have operator's manuals? I've never owned a commercially manufactured forge so I have no experience with their instructions.A kiln wash really helps but you have to be careful they're designed for ceramic kilns and have different uses. The forge furnace standard is ITC-100 which is zirconia silicate and kaolin clay. the stuff is, llast time I checked, well over $100.00 a pint/lb. One pint can is enough to cover a large forge/furnace but it's really spendy. I've also discovered the kaolin doesn't actually fire into a hard porcelain matrix for the zirconia silicate, it eventually falls off as dust.Last year some of us in the Alaskan Organization kicked in and bought zirconium silicate sand and have been experimenting with binders that work better than ITC's product. I've had pretty good luck just mixing it with the fire contact layer of the commercial castable refractory I'm using for my new forge. Oh, as I recall the straight up zirconium silicate sand cost us around $3.75/lb shipping included. Teenylittlemetal guy handled the acquisition for us and can tell us the cost specifically if you're interested.Anyway, Zirconium is pretty bullet proof stuff, it's the next best thing to diamond if you want hard, say for polishing, etc. It's chemically very unreactive though I don't think it's inert. It's melting temp is WAY out of our range unless you're using oxy propane for burners. Yeah, right.Anyway, slag, flux, most anything in our fire isn't going to effect it at all. Just don't dump it in the goop puddle and expect it to fix it, it just mixes in to no noticeable effect. Well, I can't see it helping or effecting my goop puddle.I've sure gone on a long time haven't I? Surprise! My short answer is scrape the the debris off the forge floor as a matter of your shut down procedure or it'll turn to goop melting the forge floor.I'm citing " The Kiln Book" second edition by Frederick L. Olsen for data, re. fire brick, refractories, etc. I picked it up for dirt cheap at a library book sale and it's one of my best scores ever. The entire point of the book is designing kilns using most materials available all over the world. It's charts re. refractories is extensive with evaluations.I highly recommend it to anyone interested in why refractories work or not i various situations.Criminy I gotta close or I'll get rolling again.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Got it. Goop eats floors. Scrape as much goop out each time you fire off the forge. Nothing fixes that kinda bad so don't let it get bad... Check! ;-) I still have most of a pint of ITC100, I think it was only 65$ when I bought it... I washed the floor with ITC100 when I bought the forge... Probably should have done a wash or two of Satanite, then the ITC100. Probably would make it easier to scrape up the goop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I think you are right on the price frosty. I got it at Seattle pottery,nice people to deal with btw..it is good stuff, also note it is 9.9 moh and very fine grit if you ever need it. ( think polishing)i also did not have luck with kaolin, will try ball clay soon and report on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I'll let you know how using the castable refractory as a matrix works. I'd like to get the new forge finished before the meeting but . . . <sigh>Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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