New Anvil (for me) need opinions

[NightbladeCH]

Evening everyone! My name is Corey, im new here and new mostly into the smithing trade. Ive been pounding out some stuff on a piece of RR track (as most of us im sure did at one point or another) and decided to upgrade recently. Went on Ebay and looked stuff up, but didnt find anything that had interested me so i went to craigslist instead and found this gentleman a few hours away who sold various smithing items.

 

He had alot of different types and sizes of anvils but for some reason this one kinda stuck out to me, even though its all beat up and battered hah. I am wondering if its still usable even though the edges are fairly worn down, and I only recently noticed a crack on the underside of the horn. Which worries more moreso than the edges itself. The face is flat, and has a nice rebound to it as well as ring. I cant decern any manufactures' marks on it, but there are the weight numbers on one side. 1 1 6. Im not sure how much weight that equates too atm, ive not looked it up but the gentleman told me it was 138 lbs. Sold it to me for 220.

 

Id of prolly passed on it if i had noticed the crack on the underside of the horn, and when/if i can find a flashlight ill take some pics for you fine gentlemen/women. So, is it still servicable, or did this guy have a nice run with my cash lol

 

At least on the plus side he said he would take it as a trade in for what i paid for it twards another anvil in the future.

 

Thanks again everyone and may your anvil's never cease their song.

[ThomasPowers]

if it's an American made anvil the 116 is the weight; if it's an English anvil then 116 = 1x112 + 1x28 + 6 or 146 pounds. A bathroom scale will tell!

 

Note that older traditionally made anvils were forge welded up out of pieces of wrought iron and so the "crack" under the horn may just be the join line---and or a crack but we can't tell without pictures.

 

Edges, not a problem.  make a hardy tool if you need sharp edges for something; a 100 year old smithing boot reminds folks that the first thing they should do with a new anvil is to round off the edges---they were shipped sharp as each smith could then round them to suit themselves and the type of work they did.

 

Ring: anvils that should ring should ring.  Anvils that shouldn't ring won't.  Anvils that should ring but don't usually mean that there is big trouble hiding in the anvil---unless it's firmly clamped to a base as that will diminish the ring as well.

 

Anvil prices are also location dependent; anvils where I live now are quite a bit higher than where I used to live and both places are in the USA!  As many smithing questions have a location component we generally suggest people give a general location in their profile---take a look at mine for example.  

 

 

Basically you have said "I bought a used car; it's been in a wreck, how much is it worth?  How would you go about answering that question?

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Corey,

 

You made a choice to purchase that anvil, You wouldn't have bought it if you disagreed with the price.

It is better than your rail anvil, so you have improved your tool inventory.

Don't throw away your rail, there will be a time to use it, too.

 

Enjoy the Journey.

 

Neil

[NightbladeCH]

Thanks for the replies guys, to answer a question one of yall had asked I live in the US, in georgia. Im also uploading some pics i had taken with my phone before i left for work so yall have a better idea of what im talking about.

Id like to try and clean it up, i read a wire brush and linseed oil is best for such a task.

Also is there any way to tell if its wrought or cast? I imagine cast iron would have little lines runnin through the center and such, however i dont see any evidence of that which leads me to believe its wrought.An one final question, there are square holes in the body, one on each end (longways) on the body and one on the under side, what is the purpose of those? Thanks again for yalls time

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

OK English anvil with those sharp feet, fat waist; so 146 pounds originally +/- slop in weighing. Wrought iron body forge welded up from various chunks Most cast iron anvils do not have the mold lines present---they have been fettled off by the factory. The only ones I see with casting lines are the ones coming up from Mexico recently where they use an old anvil to make molds and then cast them with whatever is left in the ladle at the end of the day of pouring other molds. Don't worry about the line on the bottom of the horn. In quite worn condition probably only another 100 years of life left in it before requiring a re-build.

Postman has identified over 200 english anvil makers many of whom made similar anvils; so if it's not stamped or identified through other means you will never know

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Corey, glad to have you. TELLING us in a post where you are isn't going to do any good later, I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday. Just put your general location in the header and we'll stop bugging you. Also, you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance, you'll learn more in a couple hours with an experienced smith than days or even weeks trying to figure it out yourself.

 

It's hard to say from the pic but that doesn't look like a crack to me. Looks like a weld joint or a torch gouge but it's not so clear a pic. Taking pics of metal work takes practice to get the lighting right but that's another subject.

 

Clean her up with hot steel and a hammer, putting her to work will put a proper shine on her face shortly. If you must, then wire brush the body and seal it with whatever concoction you like. Before I thought better of it, I used the general recipe in "The Art Of Blacksmithing" by Alex Bealer, Wax, soot and turpentine linseed oil is a popular additive. Heck, I used paraffin rather than bees wax and enough turps so it had a consistency like shoe polish. I find bees wax stays tacky too long for my taste. Anyway, after a long day of forging the anvil was darned warm, like a fresh cup of coffee so I just swabbed it with the finish and she's been nicely black ever since, say the last 25+ years or so.

 

You shouldn't do heavy work on the horn or heal so even if the horn's cracked it shouldn't mean much, just don't take a heavy hammer to it. Use a small hammer and go over the whole face with light taps and listen for dead spots. The hammer won't rebound like the rest of the face and it'll sound dead. The area right behind the cracked edges is the most likely to find dead spots, if they're close enough to the edge just grind them out and radius the edge. Don't get carried away!

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[njanvilman]

Your anvil has wear from a long life.  It is probably over 100 years old, more like over 150 years old.  It looks like it has not been used for quite a while.  Do not grind the face!  Wire wheel it to clean it up, treat the sides, and go to work on it.

[NightbladeCH]

Yea i wasnt going to grind down the face, merely brush the sides and such to clean it up a bit. It may have been battered all to hell but i generally like to take care of the things ive got ^^

 

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

Are there any certain tips/trick to help keep my anvil's life nice and long? The do's and dont's if you will

[njanvilman]

Tip #1:  Keep knuckle draggers away from it.  Do not let them hit the anvil with hammers directly.

 

Tip #2:  When finished forging for the day,  wipe your now clean anvil face down with a bit of oil to prevent oxidation.  Maybe make a simple wood cover that fits over the anvil.

 

Tip #3:  Do not use it as a support bench for O/A torch work.  Too many anvils have cutting gouges on the edges and tops.

 

Tip #4:  If you shop is not heated, warm up a block of steel in your fire and lay this on the cold anvil.  It will help to warm it up, preventing it from drawing all of the heat out of your stock.  And if you are in very cold climate, it might prevent brittleness and damage to the anvil.

 

A few early morning suggestions to start the list.

[NightbladeCH]

Thanks again for the help njanvilman, love the bit about knuckle draggers heh.

 

Also the tip about warming up the anvil was nice, since I hadnt even considered it tbh. Make sense though, the drastic changes in temps between cold and hot. So thanks again!

 

Due to an unexpected bonus at work, I can now easily afford one of the less 'battered' anvils the gentleman was selling. And since he will give me 'store credit' on anything i buy from em and return (he had said for when I wish to upgrade my anvil) I was curious if either of these fine gents are a worthy upgrade, or if instead I should stick with my currenty one?

 

One picture has all the ones he currently has (100lb+) and the other two are the ones in particular i was looking at. Whatcha guys think? I figured an anvil is one of those things imma really only buy once (at least as a side hobby is concerned, i realize many smiths have MANY different kinds of anvils) so id like to rely on yalls expert opinions' on the matter.

 

Asthetic's dont matter so much to me as longevity and functionality. Since ive not stated it thus far, my ultimate goal is to become a bladesmith, however currently im just practicing the various techniques (bending, drawing, etc)

 

Thanks once more for yalls time, and I hope the day see's everyone here well!

[Nobody Special]

I know those pictures! You went up to Acworth and bought one from Chuck, no? He's not bad, but it helps to know what you're looking for going in. He doesn't do any forging with those, just buys em up in Carolina and Tennessee and sells them down here. I've bought a couple of hardy tools from him.

 

English.....maybe, maybe a mousehole? Try rubbing the sides down with a little flour or baby powder to fill in the gaps you can't see (preferably before you clean it up too much). A lot of the times stuff pops out that you coudn't see before. If those are punchmark dots between the numbers, very good chance it's a Mousehole Armitage.

 

Also, hi from Marietta. (*waves*) If you haven't already, you might consider checking out the Alex Bealer Blacksmith's Association. We meet in and around Atlanta about once a month, and a lot of the people are willing to play other times. I might if I'm not off working the railroad. (I'm working in Mcdonough this week for example). Cheap dues, cool people, good way to learn a lot and make connections. We've got several good blademakers in the group.

[Nobody Special]

You may also want to watch the local farm auctions. They tend to be far cheaper. There's one in Taylorsville I go to sometimes that goes months without seeing one, and then will have half a dozen in a couple of months. Ditto post vises, old tools, ballpeins to turn into hawks, scrap iron, etc.

[NightbladeCH]

I know those pictures! You went up to Acworth and bought one from Chuck, no? He's not bad, but it helps to know what you're looking for going in. He doesn't do any forging with those, just buys em up in Carolina and Tennessee and sells them down here. I've bought a couple of hardy tools from him.

 

English.....maybe, maybe a mousehole? Try rubbing the sides down with a little flour or baby powder to fill in the gaps you can't see (preferably before you clean it up too much). A lot of the times stuff pops out that you coudn't see before. If those are punchmark dots between the numbers, very good chance it's a Mousehole Armitage.

 

Also, hi from Marietta. (*waves*) If you haven't already, you might consider checking out the Alex Bealer Blacksmith's Association. We meet in and around Atlanta about once a month, and a lot of the people are willing to play other times. I might if I'm not off working the railroad. (I'm working in Mcdonough this week for example). Cheap dues, cool people, good way to learn a lot and make connections. We've got several good blademakers in the group.

 

Yea I went up there and spoke to Mr. Chuck. I figured he just buys and resells, as for his prices in this area, im not certain if they are reasonable or not. What do you think? Should I look into getting one of the others, or should I wait for something better? Or is my current one more than sufficent?

 

Yea from what i can tell there are small circle indents between each number, when I get off work tomarrow ill try your suggestion and take some follow up pics if anythin else pops out at me.

 

I was recently looking into the ABBA, as of yet ive not made any decision on joining an association yet, though ill certainly look more closely due to your suggestion thanks!  I make a trip twice a month to powder springs anyway, another trip or two in that direction doesnt bother me

 

I sadly dont know anything about farm auctions, but ill certainly take a look into them. Thank you very much!

[Nobody Special]

Well......were it me, $1.50 a lb ain't a bad price out of him. It's not in the best shape I've seen, nor the worst.

 

If you're just getting into smithing, I'd probably try the one you have for awhile. Chuck's not going anywhere. In the mean time, keep a close eye on craigslist, try the auctions, and apply the TPAAAT method (google, or search the forums here. It basically boils down to ask/tell everyone you're looking for an anvil.) It works. Even when it doesn't, people bring you random tools, tongs, and scrap. If all else fails, message me, or try asking someone in the Bealer group.

 

And remember, you've already broken that mystical first anvil barrier that's so hard to break. Now that you've got one, and can afford to wait for one, you'll start seeing em pop up from time to time. I looked for two years before I found a "real anvil" I could afford (aka convince my wife we could afford it), then ended up getting four for less than $100 each within a few months of each other. One was a freebee (thank you TPAAAT! (and TP for coming up with TPAAAT)).

[Nobody Special]

Also, you asked about the square holes? Handling holes for the makers while forging it. They'd stick iron bars into them to carry/manipulate the anvil.

[NightbladeCH]

Well......were it me, $1.50 a lb ain't a bad price out of him. It's not in the best shape I've seen, nor the worst.

 

apply the TPAAAT method (google, or search the forums here. It basically boils down to ask/tell everyone you're looking for an anvil.) It works.

 

And remember, you've already broken that mystical first anvil barrier that's so hard to break. Now that you've got one, and can afford to wait for one,

 

 

What exactly is TPAAAT, sounds like somethin funny for sure. Odd thing is i was JUST talkin to a buddy of mine at work today and he had mentioned that his grandpa has a few just 'lying around' and he knew ive been anvil huntin for a few months now *facepalm*

 

Yes, you are most likely correct on that front, not sure why ive this desire to throw more money at something that at this stage isnt even needed considering ive already gotten one. Not to mention, as you said, the monumentious feat required to get authorization (from the Ms.) for such a thing lol

 

Thanks once more for all your help (an to everyone who answered here) ive really appreciated it. Im sure most of my questions were typical of someone new to the art, and as such can be frustrating to answer over and over by some of the vets here. Im off now to dig up more technique info and just get some overall ideas for my nice, long practice session tomarrow. Im sure to have plenty more in the future, and if yall like I can take pictures of my setup, as well as updates on my progress if yall/you are interested

[Wberry85]

Hey nightblade. What a small world! I went to see chuck and picked up that 138 pounder from him. It is my first anvil as well. I had such a tough time finding an anvil in north Georgia and his seemed in decent shape for a starter anvil. Might have paid a little much for it but I am able to forge now at least.

Good luck in your search.

[Glenn]

What exactly is TPAAAT,

Thomas Powers Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique

A site search will provide you with details.

[Sluicebox]

Those Mouse Holes are pretty nice! I like the way they have more body under the hardy. Some of the other famous anvils seem week at that point. There are many out there without heels. I haven't seen any Mouse Holes without heels yet. Price is not at all bad compared to where I am. Look on CL West Coast and all the adds are from people looking not selling. Auction sites are high priced. You however have the luxury of choosing from many in person, lucky you are.