So, I want to make some stake tools for my Pexto plate.  The collectibility of 'actual' Pexto stakes makes them fairly cost prohibitive, and hard to come by.

I've made one so far, using a piece of 1" square bar of mild steel.  I forged the taper, and shaped the business end.  It works 'ok', but deforms a bit after a some use (sheetmetal forming)

 

I think I need a tougher steel and some heat treatment on the Business end.

 

Any advice on type of steel to use?  And possibly where to find economically?

 

Creative solutions welcomed.  :)  Thanks for your ideas!

 

-Jeremy

Pexto stakes were meant for tinsmithing (meaning cold work on less than 16 gauge extremely mild steel, not A36), copper working, and silver work, not blacksmithing. They are typically not hard enough or robust enough for working even hot steel. Plus, the cast iron plate can crack if you are really pounding on it. One solution for holding not-staked tools is to wrap them in a piece of sheet metal and clamp the sheet in a big vise.

 

This is a perfect application for chunks of old RR track, pavement breakers, and other random cut-offs of scrap steel of the non-mild persuasion. I would also search for old heavy duty truck and earth moving equipment parts. BIG springs, track pins, axle shafts, even track links have all sorts of useful shapes. Know anybody that works for an Ag dealership, tool rental shop, or gravel quarry? Access to a big torch or plasma cutter, and stick welder would complete the requirements to get started.

Make many different posts with the forged tapers from mild steel or whatever you have.  They can have round or square cross sections, or whatever shape you want.  Lengths are up to you too.  Look for various shaped items for the top:  Railroad track spike hammer head,  a piece of tool steel round and square stock of whatever size you can get,  a section of large tubing cut to a triangle shape to make a blowhorn stake.  Look at what Pexto had available, replicate the ones you think you need, then get creative with the rest.  As long as you can make the vertical posts, you can put almost anything on the top.

Old pick heads welded to shafts, simple "T"stakes made up of round stock with the ends rounded, like NJ any kind of head. I use large diamiter sucker rod.

Hammer heads are medium to high carbon and great for stake tops as mentioned.

Mild steel is good for the vertical parts of two part stakes as mentioned.

Mild steel can be good for experimental or single use tools and even some permanent tooling depending on the nature of it's use and the structure of the tool.

I would suggest 4140 or 4340.  They are tough steels that are very common and reasonably priced.  They can be hardened to the mid 50s RC or harder but I would harden stake tools less than that.

As a professional stake maker I would recommend 4140 steel or if you want to go for recycled steel truck/car axles jackhammer bits and fork lift forks work well. I have forged and sold almost a 1/4 million dollars worth in the past 10 years.   You can also super quench mild steel.  

As a professional stake maker I would recommend 4140 steel or if you want to go for recycled steel truck/car axles jackhammer bits and fork lift forks work well. I have forged and sold almost a 1/4 million dollars worth in the past 10 years.   You can also super quench mild steel.  

Thank you ALL for the helpful comments.  These stakes will indeed be for cold forming sheet metal.

You've given me some good ideas.  I'm fairly new to metalworking, so don't have any contacts to scrounge from in the Northern Virginia area.

I have a feeling that I'll be buying most of my materials new. (unfortunately)

But hey, even if I buy a couple of digging bars and sledge hammers (new), chop 'em up, forge them, and weld them together I think I'd still come out ahead investment-wise.

 

Thanks all!  I'll be watching this space for any more helpful advice. :D

Case hardening might help.

Can you share what types of things you hope to do?  For instance if you plan to make renaissance armour I can refer you to the armourarchive.org (and yes they use the british spelling) where there is many articles on making, using and buying and selling suitable stakes.   I am sure there are forums that cover restoration and repair of automobile bodies, sculpture, etc that others might know of.

 

I've managed to get my pexto and other stakes inexpensively over many years and have made others myself as I'm associated with the SCA and so armour making happens in my shop from time to time...

Thank you ALL for the helpful comments.  These stakes will indeed be for cold forming sheet metal.

You've given me some good ideas.  I'm fairly new to metalworking, so don't have any contacts to scrounge from in the Northern Virginia area.

I have a feeling that I'll be buying most of my materials new. (unfortunately)

But hey, even if I buy a couple of digging bars and sledge hammers (new), chop 'em up, forge them, and weld them together I think I'd still come out ahead investment-wise.

 

Thanks all!  I'll be watching this space for any more helpful advice. :D

 

There must be some sort of flea markets on weekends in your area.  Garage sales.  Scrap yards.  Buying new is OK, but some of the older items you will find are made of better steels than some of the new.  Sledge hammer heads with no handles seem to be the most common item at my local flea markets, and the sellers are very happy to get rid of them cheap.  See if there is a meeting of an ABANA affiliate in your area and spread the word on the type of material you are looking for.   Being a scrounger is almost a prerequisite to do this type of work.   If you want to take a ride to NJ, I would give you a bunch of stuff to get you started.

note that collecting objects to be turned into stakes by means you are not equipped with---yet; can be done cheaply if slowly and the opportunity to build the stakes may show up unexpectedly.  I did my large stake anvil using another smiths large powerhammer at one of our ABANA affiliate meetings.  I had tossed the materials in my truck just in case and when he asked if anyone had a project they would like to work on...

TP-  You nailed it, I've been making medieval armor (in addition to blacksmith stuff), so that's the intention with these stakes.

NJ- Very generous of you!  I certainly appreciate the offer, and may take you up on it if I get impatient scrounging locally. :)

 

I've called all the local scrapyards with no luck.  They will all accept scrap, but none of them will allow you to wander/scrounge/purchase.  Bummer.

It also seems that all the 'good' flea markets are far away.  But I have to drive for work sometimes, and have scrounged flea/antique shops and craigslist on those trips with some good success.

I'm piling up some hammer heads, breaker chisels, etc.  Just yesterday I came home with a champion rivet forge (score!) so I'm definitely in tooling-up mode. :)

 

Sounds like I need to check into the local blacksmith meetings and make a few friends.  I wanted to hit the Gichner memorial last weekend but couldn't make the 4 hour round trip.

 

Thanks guys...

Shoot I found a bunch of neat scrap in Manassas VA just walking around an area where they were turning a farm into a subdivision, As is typical the farmer(s) had parked old implements along a fence row and 50 years later they were still there. (Old farm implement dealerships often have a bone yard too, also heavy equipment dealers---think dozers! Ask a small welding shop where you might find scrap...)

And while I would not suggest one set about corrupting scrapyard employees; sometimes a dozen doughnuts delivered to the office with a page of pictures of what you are looking to purchase at above scrap rates can result in things being set aside and deals done outside of the scrapyard proper. Doing this through the office is less ethically iffy; many times they would like to help a smith out but insurance doesn't allow non-workers to be in the yard proper.

Just to rub it in Saturday I'm going to visit my local to my shop scrapyard where they welcome me with smiles and let me wander the piles digging things out and they even set steel or cast iron balls aside for me as they know I will buy them, so far they have supplied 2"-12" diameter balls and they sell me stuff at scrap rate US 20 cents a pound! (The time they had a half dozen 100# cast iron balls was a struggle but I managed to buy them all and pass them on fast enough that it didn't blow my budget, I already had one that sized myself...)

See you over at armourarchive.org !

Thanks Thomas.  I joined armourarchive recently under the name jeremy.g

You can have  look at the cuirass I'm currently muddling through.

 

:)

If you want some advise on how some stakes are made I have done fair amount of studding, experimentation and collected many historic examples.  I also may have some seconds and used stakes I may want to sell.

Thanks Timothy.  I could always use some good advice.

 

The first stake I want to make will have a simple 1/4" wide 'working' edge, for folding a 1/4" lip on 18G sheet.

 

I have some mild 1" mild square stock.  I'm thinking maybe forge-weld a strip of tool steel (drill bit or chisel?) onto the tip and call it good.

 

I also want to make an 'extension' stake that will hold the various '949' type Pexto stakes.  For that, I'm thinking use the same 1" square, and weld a square socket of 1/2" plate to the top.

 

This stake would be used in the upright position, not laying over as the picture would suggest.

 

Also wondering if I should try to upset the bottom of the 1" square stock, so I could forge a beefier taper to fit the larger Pexto holes.  Not sure if I'd be able to upset stock that large...?

 

Pics below- advice welcomed.  Thanks!

 

-Jeremy

 

Upsetting 1" by yourself without power equipment is not a good plan. Unless you are quite good at forge welding I would not use that technique until you were quite good---practice on other items.

 

For rolling edges I used a  bit from a jackhammer + a little grinding.  like some of these:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKTcsbOR9mRJBjdyZrs6NXEB4lIjLZDDipI9Nr0faib0tYHlPIqA

 

Jackhammer bits are generally around 1050 and can be found used fairly inexpensively

 

As far as how armouring stakes are made nowadays; I'd search on Author Halberds  keyword stakes over at Armour archive

If your going to upset 1" solo I suggest leaving the bar long (6') and use a floor plate. Bluntly point the bar and use its weight (16# or so) and pound on the plate. You may want to quench the tip to upset farther up. Repeat as nessisary.
This is why I like large gauge sucker rod. The medium gauge makes nice bicks and stake tools for the anvil, just forge the flange on the threaded end down.

On sucker rod find the local guy who welds up fences and he often has buckets of short end pieces he's be willing to turn loose of at scrap rate...

 

Probably not so easy to find up in the northern corners of the USA; but down here in oil country sucker rod is a common material as they swap them out after a certain use life---having one fatigue and break downhole is *MONEY* to fish the rest out...

Nice!

Man, I gotta find me some sucker rod...

If your going to upset 1" solo I suggest leaving the bar long (6') and use a floor plate. Bluntly point the bar and use its weight (16# or so) and pound on the plate. You may want to quench the tip to upset farther up. Repeat as nessisary.

 

 

That's pretty much how I did the upsets on my 1" solid square legs for my forge. I took a spare anvil and set it on the floor and pounded the leg up and down like  digging bar. By the 3rd or 4th upset I had the process down pat. ( 3 upsets per leg, one for the base and 2 for the slit and drifted cross member locations). My legs were a bit shorter, about 4' in length, but the raised surface of the anvil probably helped off set the shorter height.

 

 

I will admit it's one of the few times I used gloves while forging. That let me let the bar slide thru my hands on the downward pass and the "bounce" without tearing up my hands too much, though I did a real number on the heavy welding gloves I was using.

If you leave the bar long as Charles mentions uspsetting 1" by hand is actually quite easy.  I regularly upset both ends of a 5' 1 1/8" round bar by hand.  I do batches of 25 of them and then flatten the ends for a bolt hole.  Heat them really hot and a nice short heat

 

For your extension forge welding a socket on would be a tricky weld.  I would either faggot weld or upset the end to get some mass then flatten it and punch and drift your hole.  Assuming you won't be using tall stakes in the extensions you don't need the pocket to be as deep as the pexto one.  I made a bunch for a silversmithing class for working inside vessels and I flattened them to 1/2"-3/4" thick and then punched the hole; 

however upsetting the amount needed to make a good stake taper would be quite a few times more than was needed for a bolthead...