Richard702 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Hello everyone I'm new to black smithing and smelting and I've stated on building my own foundry in my back yard and for some reason I can't find any information on what a crucible or the latel is made out of for melting steel. i live in Las Vegas so finding things shouldn't be so hard lol any help would be appreciated. Another topic is I'm making my own refractory out of portland cement and perlite i need to know the right ratio for a forge to mix these to ingreidents. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 May I commend to your attention backyardmetalcasting.com as a forum dedicated to foundry work and so perhaps a better place to get such information.Please be aware that "smelting" and "melting" are radically different processes Smelting can be done without liquefaction of the metal as in the direct bloomery process. Smelting iron involves the exposure of iron ore to carbon monoxide at high temps and while it can be done with a crucible process; it generally isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Welcome aboard Richard, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance. You really need to do some serious research. Casting steel isn't typically a home shop let alone a backyard activity and is more dangerous than juggling nitro. No joke. Portland cement refractory for a steel melting furnace is a recipe for disaster. Heck, what you describe won't work for a campfire pit. I'm not trying to discourage you from learning either craft, but casting is NOT something to just wing. Even casting lead sinkers takes knowledge, proper PPE, shop/bench and equipment. Molten lead can cause crippling and disfiguring injury if you screw up. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Richard, Do your self a favor, start small. If you want to cast something start with beer/soda cans. The guysin the SCA that do bronze casting buy their crucibles from budgetcastingsupply.com. You should keep in mind that melting steel is VERY hard since you are dealing with very high temps. I would say you are going to spend more in fuel than new steel or useable scrap would cost. Take a look on Youtube for "Secrets of the Viking Sword - PBS" show what it takes to turn iron in to steel, and it is COOL.Richard, One more thing, Thomas and Frosty are REALLY good at this so I take their advice if I was you. Second thing is look for steel casting on Youtube and you will see people in protective gear some place between the Intel inside guys and full on bomb squad. Last thing is water forms a chemical bond to Portland cement and once it gets hot enough the bond breaks and all the water turns in to steam, right next to you. The action is called "spalling" and the spall temp is MUCH lower than the temp you need to melt steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 in case you dont understand what Essemann said, when the water in the cement you are playing with turns to steam it expands 1600 times, in even simpler terms you have made a bomb. I am moving this thread into the foundry and casting section where all this information is posted already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Steve, I did not remember the figure (1600 times) but I do know it was a bunch. Ernest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Yup, that is the math at the vapor change of state for water, scarry isnt it ? :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Steve, For me most math is scary :mellow: . What it worse the bomb in question is right next to a propane tank and in most cases under waste/belt high. Talk about taking someone out at the knees. Ernest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 it does tend to clean out the gene pool that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Steve, that is cold man, too cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard702 Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Thanks everyone for the advice, like I said I'm just starting so any advice is good advise for me. I'll look into everything you all said and take proper steps into making sure nothing goes wrong Also I'm starting small I'm going to try aluminum cans first but I just want to make sure my foundry can handle steel is why I asked but thanks again for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 It wont matter if your foundry can handle steel now, because before you get to that stage, you will have rebuilt it a few times. The inside of the furnace is a disposable item. and even the rest has to be rebuilt from time to time. take it slow and easy and you will learn a lot, rush and you may fail painfully, If you can connect with regular casting people, it will make your journey much faster and safer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard702 Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Yeah I plan on taking it slow maybe bronze or aluminum or something with a lower temp then steel just to get my feet wet a bit before I move on to something like that. It's just that I never grew up around this kinda thing but I was always interested so I'm just I guess making it up as I go lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Make sure the aluminum cans are dry. If you add a new can to molten metal you might get a steam explosion from water or old soda in the can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Think about it like looking for a car to learn to drive on with the end goal of doing Formula 1 racing. The one you learn the basics on will be a lot simpler and cheaper than the one you race at the top end on. I'm all for general craziness; it's how some really neat stuff gets done. However without basic experience and safety precautions it can result in massive halloween savings as your "Freddy Krueger" mask is built in; or with someone standing up around the fire at Quad-State and giving a farewell toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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