David R. Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Early forges used a side blast instead of bottom blast. Does anyone have experience with this typeforge. How do they heat? Is it difficult to get and maintain welding heats with a forge of thisdesign? I believe this is what they use at Colonial Williamsburg. Do you need a blast nozzle? Doesthe blast come in on the floor of the hearth or elevated some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The Brits still use and manufacture them. I know at least one thread gives some details of there use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 A friend of mine made a very simple side blast forge from an old metal desk drawer. He lined it with kitty litter and we used one of the desk legs for the tuyere and a shop vac with a dimmer switch for the blast. We made an axe and welded in a spring steel bit. It worked very well. It doesn't have to be fancy. Sometimes less is more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 It is difficult to find out what the very early American side blasts looked like. Ken Schwarz is the smithy master at Williamsburg, and we corresponded about it at one time. I was surprised to hear that the forged, tapered bellows nose was inserted into a tuyere hole that went through a large block of cast iron. Other than that, I know little. The hearth was probably made of crushed cinders and rubble. The present day British water cooled tuyere is elevated a little above the hearth. If the cast iron was not available, I'm guessing that a tuyere pipe could be surrounded by clay to protect it. Hawley wrote The Blacksmith and his Art. Hawley visited Spain and saw a man with an electric conduit pipe for a tuyere. It was stuck through the adobe back wall of his hearth. The man was doing small scrollwork, some of it forge welded. As the conduit burned away, the smith simply pushed it through the wall further! Hawley's side blast that he built in Arizona was water cooled and used a hearth of wet wood ashes. The books shows plans. Sayings and Cornpone "I come from a neighborhood so tough that they bowl overhand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryforge Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 We had a demonstrator from England come over all he uses is a side blast forge. He is a Master in his trade all the forge welds are done without flux, in his demo he must have done a hundred welds small one large ones all stuck all looked great. After the weekend was over I decided to build a water cooled side draft total cost about 40 dollars as I had lots of material around all I bought was 20 feet of 6 inch by 1/8 flat bar for the pan. Welds great you have to keep it going as I use coke no breaks as it goes out rather fast but a new experince in forging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 It is difficult to find out what the very early American side blasts looked like. Ken Schwarz is the smithy master at Williamsburg, and we corresponded about it at one time. I was surprised to hear that the forged, tapered bellows nose was inserted into a tuyere hole that went through a large block of cast iron. Other than that, I know little. The hearth was probably made of crushed cinders and rubble. The present day British water cooled tuyere is elevated a little above the hearth. If the cast iron was not available, I'm guessing that a tuyere pipe could be surrounded by clay to protect it. Hawley wrote The Blacksmith and his Art. Hawley visited Spain and saw a man with an electric conduit pipe for a tuyere. It was stuck through the adobe back wall of his hearth. The man was doing small scrollwork, some of it forge welded. As the conduit burned away, the smith simply pushed it through the wall further! Hawley's side blast that he built in Arizona was water cooled and used a hearth of wet wood ashes. The books shows plans. Sayings and Cornpone "I come from a neighborhood so tough that they bowl overhand." One of the British smiths who used to frequent this board (Bruce Wilcock) said a piece of black iron pipe worked well as you described here. Just advance it as it burns off and get a new piece when there is nothing left. The only reason the water cooled tuyere came into existence was for convenience (the smith could buy a ready made device) and longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 "Mechanics Exercises", Moxon, shows a sideblast forge from around the last half of the 17th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Its what I am using, or my version there of. I have a pipe of 2" or so diameter that extends through the bottom of of my brick fire box. The end of the pipe is sealed. I started initialy with mutiple holes in the top of the pipe so the air would feed upwards from the bottom of the fire, I decided they needed to be larger and ground them out. The material between the openings eventually burnt away and I now have a single opening of about 1" x 3" +/- in the top of the pipe (bottom of the fire box). It works quite well for me. The air source is a bathroom exhaust fan. I normaly forge with a only a small fire of 1 brick in depth, but can mound up the coal and/or add another layer of brick if I want a deeper/larger fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I built one a year and a half ago and have come to like it very much. It has no problems mantaining welding heat. Once you get used to the fire you have more control over its shape than in a bottom blast. I also get to use a bottom blast forge with a firepot regularly at a friends shop and like the side blast better. In a bottom blast the fire pot diticates the size and shape of the fire. In a side blast you shape the fire to suite the job at hand. It is more of a blank canvas and the hollow or bowl holding the fuel can be shaped any way you like. It takes more work to maintain the fire so it is bit of trade off as to versatility and ease of use. In the side blast clinkers tend to build up beneath the blast instead of in it and the fire stays cleaner. I built my forge based on Mark Asprey's plans. I used his design for the water cooled blast pipe and his side draft flue, they both work very well. The blast pipe is up a bit off the floor of the forge. My build thread is here and contains some more disscusion on the subject as well as links to the plans. '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Bruce also mentioned in passing that the water cooled cast iron tuyere were sometimes fragile and would crack when positioning larger work. He said he used a stainless heavy walled pipe, and that it was durable and held up to the heat well. He also said he lined the bottom of the forge with a cut section of sod with the grass turned down and the dirt and roots making the floor of his forge??? I thought it was odd at the time, and was probably some distant tradition but didn't ask. I miss Bruce a great deal wish I would have bought some tools from him before I missed the chance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I have two side-blast forges that I built, both reproductions of mid-1800s military forges, one U.S. Army and the other a Naval style forge. The wheeled forge shown below works fine without a water cooled tuyere. The semi-portable Naval forge that I built, I am still fooling with to solve a few issues including the heat transfer from fireplace to the bellows nozzle. The reproduction cast iron fireback for the side-blast wheeled "Traveling Forge" is produced and sold by : http://www.museumandcollector.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 One of the British smiths who used to frequent this board (Bruce Wilcock) said a piece of black iron pipe worked well as you described here. Just advance it as it burns off and get a new piece when there is nothing left. The only reason the water cooled tuyere came into existence was for convenience (the smith could buy a ready made device) and longevity. I did that for about 5 years until I decided to try a bottom blast design for a change. I've seen no difference in use. The only difference I can see is that a side blast has clinker collected beneath the air supply rather than directly over it in the bottom blast design... I just like how compact a bottom blast forge can be. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I did that for about 5 years until I decided to try a bottom blast design for a change. I've seen no difference in use. The only difference I can see is that a side blast has clinker collected beneath the air supply rather than directly over it in the bottom blast design... I just like how compact a bottom blast forge can be. All the best Andy Since you have used both, please allow me to ask you for an opinion - I bought a large quantity of coal about 25 years ago and still have about a ton or so left. It is quite hot and cokes well but is very dirty; in my bottom blast Buffalo firepot, the fire will clinker up about 15-20 minutes after it's burning freely. I can usually get 4-8 good heats (depending on the work) then it's best to let the fire cool and clean it. I've learned to use this fuel over the years but it's still a pain to stop and tear up the fire for cleaning. How much longer would you estimate I could work with a sideblast before having to stop? If the difference is five or tenfold, it would be worth having both types in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 HW, unfortunately I tend to use charcoal as I've never gotten on well with coal so that might skew things a bit, But, if you have your air inlet set a good height above the base of your forge, the clinker collects just beneath the pipe. And sinks down to the base of the forge. So you're fire effectively sits above it. The professional forges I see usually have a clearance of a few inches. I often didn't get much in the way of clinker unless my charcoal was very dusty but more often than not I'd dig a big chunk out at the start of the day. And that was usually me sorted for most of the day. Bizarrely I always though that the big clinkers kept a lot of heat in the fire as it always seemed to cool down a lot when I pulled it out. I haven't had a big clinker like that for a long time now though. 4-8 heats? Heck, I'd be looking at hours. Let's say worst case scenario and I'd be digging a chunk out every 2-3hrs. My bottom blast forge set up has a raised air inlet, just a piece of pipe with a plate welded over it. The clinker collects around that in a little ring and again I don't need to clean it out for some time. These days I check it once a day. Ie before I start working. But usually there isn't much clinker... This idea was taken from this forum. When 01tundra did his forge build along he raised the air inlet. Perhaps you could build a quick side draft to have a play with. I don't think you would experience the same level of clinker. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have a bottom blast forge but have used a water cooled side blast & definitely preferred it, the main reason being I could clean the clinker out without destroying the fire. I have no proof of this but I have a hunch that side blast would be better for forge welding because any junk + oxygen isn't getting blown directly up into your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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