Beginners, made some stuff....

[John Martin]

Okay, so I'm a kid, and i've made a fire poker, two hand-held punches, and pair of tongs that don't hold onto anything very well. I'm using a brick forge that I setup in my back yard. A 4lb hammer, a 1.5 pound round pein hammer, with a flat face on the other end, multiple tongs/pliers. And for an anvil, i've used a railroad piece, the part that the tie itself lays on and is nailed to, not the wood, obviously. I'm using charcoal and a high powered blow drier. I can get it all hot enough, but I just can't get the hang of it. Is it just practice or am I doing stuff wrong. Like I have a hard time making tongs. I've gotten the fire so hot that the steel melts and i wreck my piece. Any sites to learn other than this one? I've been reading a lot on here.

Would appreciate any help.

The Elder M_Brother

[Phil Patrick]

Well, You have all the same stuf that I started out with. Don't get too hung up on absolutely needing to own every tool know to man or beast. At fist, I just concentrated on making simple things and learning from that. If your tongs aren't working correctly, ask yourself why. Then ask yourself how you could improve on that problem. This is the system of all troubleshooting and learning. BE PATIENT! Lastly, ,ask questions of everyone here, that is the purpose of the forum.

Good luck,, hope to here more from you.

[J W Bennett]

Welcome to I FORGE IRON. It helps to have patients, practice and help from others. If you have a local ABANA chapter go to a meeting and watch and listen and ask questions. If no close chapter post you location and maybe one of us can help you. If you are in the US some of the 4H chapters and boy scouts have picked up Blacksmithing as a project. Check out the Lessons in Metalworking > Blacksmithing section (front page of the site) and the downloadable books available in it (LB0008 and LB0008.0001). You'll be hard put to find a better, more knowledgeable group that is available here and willing to help.
Once again welcome and feel free to jump in amongst us.

John

[John Martin]

I don't know how to make a gripper very well, like on the end of the tongs. Also, what should I start making for a beginner??? Other than what I'm doing. I do want to own many tools, until I have a use for them, or until I can build them my self.

by the way, my first name is john to. lol.

[lnxfergy]

I'm by no means an expert on forging, but I work at a scout camp during the summer and do some blacksmithing with our kids. First thing I can recommend is get a lighter hammer, try a 2 or 2-1/2 lb cross pien as your mainstay hammer. You will likely have more control over what you are doing and find that the work goes much faster because you aren't tiring yourself out as much.

There are quite a few easy projects that will help you get the hang of what you are doing, and from there you can move on. Make some S-shaped hangers, all different kinds, practice drawing out the ends, rounding and squaring the material, and getting a flat face on both sides of a piece (an important thing when making tongs). Try making some screwdrivers with a decorative loop on the end (this is what our basic project is with the kids participating in our Backwoodsman program).

As for your tongs, are you using any sort of direction or just winging it? There is a certain trick to good tongs - that they fit the size of the material you are using. A pair of tongs should, when gripped on the work piece, have the handles come approximately an inch or so from actually touching. If the handles touch each other you can't get the tongs to close. If they are too close to each other it will feel small in your hand you can't get a really good grip on them, the same if they don't come close enough to each other. Make sure you follow a drawing for your tongs (and make sure it is for the right size material, tongs that work great for 1/4" round stock will not work so well on 2" round stock)

-Fergs

[Glenn]

IForgeIron.com > Lessons in Metalworking > Blacksmithing > click here
LB0008 and LB0008.0001 both contain reference books you can read.

Patience and working on a single technique (practice) till you get many pieces to match is the key. For instance, round to square, not round to diamond, or round to trapezoid, but round to square. Draw out a piece of metal to 1-1/2 inches in taper, not 2 inches and not 1 inch, but 1-1/2 inches each time.

A two pound hammer is plenty of weight to move a lot of metal. The key here is hammer control and hitting the metal in the proper location with the propere forge needed.

Go to IForgeIron.com and so a search for tongs. There are several Blueprints on making tongs listed. As mentioned, one pair of tongs will NOT do everything. Tongs are usually made for a specific size and shape stock and many times for a specific job.

Ask questions, go to the forge and try the suggestions, then ask additional questions about specific problems. Your answers will then be much more specific and usually can solve your problem.

The IForgeIron.com > Forum archive (bottom right on the forum page) has the answers to many of your questions already answered. It is a wonderful resource. Pack a lunch as you can get lost reading in the archive (grin).

[Ian]

I've just begun to teach classes over the Pond in London, and regardless of age, sex or skill level of the people walking in through the door, there are a few basic exercises that will stand you in excellent stead.
So here goes:

1) Take a piece of old steel (a horse shoe for example) and forge it down into a piece of stock sized steel, say flat bar or square bar. Pick a stock size thats a little less than your starting stock so you don't have 'too' much forging to do, after all it's a starting exercise. Care should be taken to ensure the stock is flat and free of hammer marks and that the chosen stock size is constant throughout the forged section.
2) Using 1/2 inch square bar measure 2 inches from the end and centre punch a mark. From that mark forge the bar down to a square point 3 inches long. Again care should be taken to ensure the faces are 90 degrees to each other and that the faces are smooth and hammer mark free.
3) Repeat above exercise forging a round point, hexagonal point, and diamond point. The transition lines should be sharp and crisp on the angled points, with all faces being the same size.

After those are done we move on to making simple scrolls using those forged points, and from there onto other exercises designed to introduce the different skill sets involved in Smithing. Our basis for these exercises was a copy of the Apprentice Farriers course from Hereford University.

After you've made the square, round, hexagonal, and diamond points (all 3" long remember) post back and i'll go through the next set of exercises in the book.
Remember.... have fun :)

[John Martin]

I have looked up videos and what not for tongs, and I've read all of your artciles believe it or not. I have a hard time with the tongs, because I do not have a decent or real anvil to bend it on, im using a C-peice of metal that bolted onto the log that i'm using as an anvil stand. I'll try the screw driver tomorrow or this weekend. One more question, do any of you have the problem of the metal folding in on itself while smithing. And how do you fix that??? I had to throw our a knife that i made from a giant railroad spike, and made a new one. The second one was really good, and my younger brother uses it.

[Glenn]

Where are you located?

[John Martin]

Wisconsin. There are about three big blacksmith shops around my area, in Wisconsin.

[Glenn]

Call the blacksmithing shops and ask to set up a time to visit. Take a note book and a list of questions. Write down the answers you are given. In return for the information, sweep the floor, fill the coal bin, empty the trash etc. Then go home and practice. When you return, you will exhibit skill and improvement in both your work and your questions.

Contact the Upper Midwest Blacksmith Association. November 10 is their fall meeting at Centaur Forge Burlington, WI. Try to make the trip as you will learn more in one day than you can ever imagine. Again take a note book.

[gerald]

I want to reinforce Glenn's suggestion (mandate) that you get a notebook. An old friend always told me "A short pencil is better than a long memory". A companion piece to your notebook and pencil should be a digital camera if you have one.

[John Martin]

i have a digital camera. i like the idea of setting up a date with one of them, and in return, doing them some cleaning up. Does anyone on here live in Wisconsin??? also, i can go to the meeting in Burlington, my dad said that he'd take me. Thank-you so very much for all of your help.

[skunkriv]

Hope to see you at the UMBA meeting in Burlington. The date has not been finalized yet but there will be a two day meeting at Bob Bergman's Postville Blacksmith shop in Postville (near New Glarus) probably in February. Don't miss that one. Welcome to IFI

[John Martin]

skunkriv, it'll be nice to meet you at the meeting, please post the set date and time, once it is finalized, or PM me about it. Thanks.

p.s.

you're coming up from iowa???

[Finnr]

I'm in the Eau Claire area of Wisconsin. I don't get to the Southern area real often unless it's for a SCA event though.
Finnr

[the_sandy_creek_forge]

for an anvil, i've used a railroad piece, the part that the tie itself lays on and is nailed to, not the wood, obviously.

Hey M,
Not sure if I am thinking of the same thing you have (and not sure that someone hasn't mentioned it yet) but if I AM thinking of what you are using, it is a piece of plate about 5"x5" and maybe 1/2" thick. It has several square holes in it and two ridges that the track sits down in between? If so it's a trackplate. If that's what you're using, it's a little on the light side for an anvil.

If you have a local salvage yard that allows you to walk around and pick out what you want, go and find the biggest solid chunk of steel that you can find (or afford) and use it for an anvil. Alternately, take a little bit longer walk and see if maybe there isn't a chunk of rail laying somewhere. I know around here they usually leave the cutoffs laying where they fall. RR rail doesn't make the most ideal anvil, but it would a lot sturdier than a trackplate. I believe there is a blueprint here on IFI about alternatives to a "real" anvil. Remember, all an anvil is is something big, heavy, and steelish.
-Aaron @ the SCF

[John Martin]

There is a rail laying around back there, but it'd be pretty hard to move 1500 feet back to my house, we live on like 13 acres. But, the track plate is prolly 25lb, 5x8 and has 8 sqaure holes in it, and for a horn, i used a j shaped piece from the railroad.

[matt87]

I managed to hump 14" of rail about a mile to get it home, and I'm scarilly skinny! I put it in a large rucksack and took it slowly. Had some scrap mild, a large cooking pot and some other junk in there too.

[waianvil]

when you go to the meeting at Burlington they have it at centaur store,you can look at all the good stuff.they also have a good book slection they have a good one for railroad track for use as a anvil.Been there 3years ago lot of interesting demo also.

[ThomasPowers]

I once pulled a 180# forklift tine out of the forest along a slope by myself. I C-clamped a couple of wheels to the center of the tine and would pull it about 20' then lean it up against a tree and rest.

inletting a large sledgehammer head in a stump will make a small anvil better than a RR fishplate---there is a filmclip out there of a asian fellow bladesmithing kukri's using just that.

In general you want your anvil weight to be at least 50 times heavier than your hammer and the mass located generally under the hammer impact zone---why we suggest standing hunks of steel on end in a bucket of concrete rather than flat on a stump.

[Bentiron1946]

Long ago I used to know a blade smith that had a 5' length of rail set in concrete and had the end polished. He said he didn't need a big anvil for knives just a "sweet spot" and that 5' length set in concrete gave it to him better then laying on it's side. Just a thought.