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I Forge Iron

1045/1050???


JPH

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Gene:

Ok...Who left the door open?? Man they'll let anyone join here..(well that is true cause I am here...) Welcome...and Thank You!! I just fired off a note to him. Well you forgot the passionately purple part..I figured I may as well acknowledge the fact that I am at times a blooming idiot with some of the dumb things I have done over the years....heh heh heh....Never expected to live this long (to the dismay of both my friends and my enemies...)..

Just need the 1045/1050 for some stuff for book 4...I have all the notes that we wrote when Bob Engnath was alive and we were figuring out the yakiba stuff. It would be a downright shame if this information were to be lost and even though I do NOT like doing the "Japanese stuff" (for numerous reasons...) I feel like I owe this to Bob (I miss that man to this very day...) to make sure that all the work he and I did will stay "mainstream"..

JPH

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Hi jim,

Yeah, Mike told me about this forum. He didn't tell me I had to wear a tie to get in.

If Marty didn't have any 1050 left, I checked and I have one piece. It's 3/16 x 1.5 by 4 1/2. I can send it to you oif you can't find any other. I'm glad to see you doing what you are. Bob had quite an effect on both of us.

He did a video, unedited, of clay tempering. I don't know whether you ever saw it. I had a copy that got stolen when I got burg'd in 2004, but a friend had made a copy. He's burning me a copy so now I'll have one again. If you don't have one, I'll burn you a copy. I wish i had it a week ago.

I've a custoner that I do tanto blades for. He's been wanting me to clay temper. I did one blade and it actually came out okay. I used 1060. So I did 6 more out of 1065. Every single one cracked. I did it to the best of my recollection as how Bob did it. Obviously I missed something.

I think what I missed is that do stock remove these, I need to normalize and anneal before heat treat. Just too many stresses trying to get out when it hits the water. I had to do 6 more for the guy, so I clay coated them and quenched in oil. The hamons actually came out pretty good, and better yet, no cracks.

So obviously I need to do things a bit different. While 1065 isn't that expensive, I hate throwing away a couple of days labor. It goes back to life being a learning experience. So, I'm coming to similarly dislike some of this Janese stuff. But if were easy, everybody would be doing it I guess.

Let me know about the 1050. I still have your address, as far as I know, so I can mail you some. Do you want a copy of that video? Heck, you might have several, but I have to ask.

Passionately Purple Cactus Flower....right. But creative. I like that.

Gene

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Tool Steel Service-Ground Flat Stock and Drill Rod Might have some but it's best if you contact them to find out. might want to look at their drops for sale section as well.

For those of us who don't make knives, is there any reason to use 1045 over 1060, or is it just for this specific style it was close to what was originally available?
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Gene:

I know about the video.seen it a few times....typical Bob.....Old Bob was suppose to get me a copy but the rat up and died on us before he did...Man I miss him...he and Stevie (who isn't doing too well now) are the Godparents of my three children. So if ya could I would like a copy ...THANK YOU...

On the cracking...1060?? Ok how warm was the water?? 1060 cracks if water isn't warm enough, that is why we suggested oil for anything over 1055. Now even 1095 can be water hardened, it IS a "water hardening" steel...but when "water hardening" is mentioned the mills do not mean tap water, rather they mean some sort of brine. I use a mix of sodium hydroxide, ammonia nitrate (blue salts), salt and some grease cutting soap (like "Dawn" or that Shaklee stuff IF you can find it). This works great with the 1045/1050 and cracking is held to a minimum plus the lines are just gorgeous.

So far I am skunked on the 1045 flat....so the next step is if I can't find any is to flatten out the 1045 round I have here I use for tooling....I really don't want to as that takes time and time translates into $$$ that I have to charge down the road. So I will look around some more to see if I can find any....the 1053 that was mentioned could be used so I will look into that as well...(thanks Craig...)

Well I have a busy day..best to get out to it...gotta finish up that shortsword (all I need to do is the sheath....Gawd I hate leather work..), plus finish up a PW dirk and a PW Basilard and then forge out a couple of turkish pieces...
So back to the salt mines...

JPH

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Jim,

Yeah, Bob could get involved in things. I miss him too. Sorry to hear about Stevie, she's a sweet lady. As soon as I get the dvd back rom my friend I'll burn you a copy. And one for aprenticeman, too.

The water was cool to start with, much warmer by the third blade when it cracked. When I watched Bob doing this at his shop he had a garden hose running in the quench tank to keep things cool. Maybe the last 3 wouldn't have cracked if I'd let the water keep warming up rather than adding some cold to it. Jim Ferguson told ne that he always heated his water to 180 for his 1095/nickel damascus. I use oil for 1095.

Sorry you got skunked with Marty. He usually has something good squirrelled away. I've only been able to get 1050 in round stock locally, and that's ordered in from Portland. Good steel is getting harder to get. BTW, my brother works for a very large fence company. They were told to expect a 20% increase in price the first of the year. I love it.

Anyhow, I need to get to work, too. When I get my dvd from Winkley i'll burn you a copy and get it off to you. During the filming they had to shut it off twice because sirens passing by cut Bob off. Living in a large metro area is so much fun. That's why I like the sticks. If we hear sirens, it's probably real serious.

L8R

Gene

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Mike:

They were the first I called...they only have the plate and I have no way to cut it and to have them shear it into strips would be a whole lotta filthy lucre...I need like two or three full length sticks..that's all I need...

JPH

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One Source Metal Products

Canadian store...don't know if they will ship to the US, and their products aren't broken down more than general categories. Too late to call today.

Discount Steel - The widest selection of steel, aluminum and other metals at discount prices.

List 1045 in their barstock section, but don't break it down. Too late to call today.

Impact Metal Products - Steel, high yield strength, low temp charpys & abrasion resistant flats
Has 1045 rounds, and says to call and ask about other shapes. Too late to call.

Tried a few other places on the phone, but none had 1045 flat bar.
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It's becomming increasingly hard to find many different formerly 'common' alloys of steel (even simple steels) which are supurb for blade smithing. This is unfortunate really, as it's forcing smiths to either use another material, or get a custom melt. I know that I really like 1084 for blades, but the only source for 1084 currently is Aldo Bruno & Mace Vitale who went together to purchase a large amount at once tagging along with another corporation's custom melt, and it's a very limited suply... once it's gone, it's gone.

I'll check, but I believe the fastenal in my town had some flatbar 1045 in around 2" x 1/4" x 5' but that was a while ago, and I dont see 1045 on the fastenal catelog anymore except as square bar. if you've got a press or a mill or a power hammer, you could pick up a large amount of 1045 from fastenal in square stock for not too expensive and draw it out in a relativly short time. A short piece of 1" square will go a long ways drawn to 1.25x.25 and I've seen Derrik Wulf up in vermont draw down a 1" square of W2 12 inches long to close to that dimensions in a single heat with his Bull power hammer.

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Hopwdy:

OK..found some 1044....from Central steel and Wire up in Ill or Mi I do believe..now they give the specs and between 40 and 50 points C..I am a bit leery on getting any as this is getting pretty low for even a shallow hardening steel...Anyone play with this stuff any??

at $2.00 and change a pound that's the best deal I can do...unless I want to flatten out round stock...

JPH

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