blacksmith stamp

[NorthSmith]

Hi. I have a small personal problem, and i have to find out what other blacksmiths view on this is. So i work in a blacksmithshop, i am nearly finished my apprenticeship,that have lasted 3 years. So here is my problem: when i make items, like shoehorns, candleholders etc. My boss/mentor means that his name on stamps should be on the items, even if the design is mine, or i have been part of the designs. Now this is just a small shop, just two blacksmith and a office man. It's just irritating, so i wonder if im irritaded for nothing.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Northsmith, glad to have you. Please put your general location in the header so we won't have to keep asking. You also might be surprised at how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.

 

You're an apprentice in HIS shop so his mark goes on anything going out the door, that's pretty normal anywhere.

 

At some time if you've become an accomplished enough smith to have a reputation of your own HE may decide to make you a partner and include your mark on the work. Employees don't have a place in the business's name logo or such. Normal normal.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[DSW]

My understanding is traditionally a smith didn't earn his own "stamp" until he at least reached journeyman status. At that time he might be allowed to put his personal mark on work, but usually that mark was small and still only meant that a particular smith worked on an item. Typically that mark just helped identify who made a certain repetitive item. The shops mark still showed what shop did the work. It really wasn't until you became a master that you could really mark work as your "own".

 

 

 

I've done a lot of work for other people in the past, and photographed it to show what my skill level is. However it's still not "my" work, no matter how much time and effort I put into the design and execution of it. To call it "mine" would say that I was the one who was responsible for the job, not the company I was working for at the time. If I use those picts as an example of "my" work, I'm always very clear that this was work that I did while working for X company. It's a bit different if I'm a sub contractor. In that case it is "my" work, even if it's part of another job. In that case I have total control ( within reason) of the project and get to take credit for the work I did. I take all the risk if something goes wrong, thus I get to take all the credit.

 

 

I've seen guys quit working for a company, then post up picts of jobs they worked on and claimed that "they" did the work, implying that it was their company that did the job, not someone else's. That's just plain fraud, and several have been taken to court over stuff like that and lost.

[John B]

My personal take on the stamp issue was that all the bespoke work that went out carried the Company name, and also the ID name of the smith who made the item.

 

This benefitted in a couple of ways, pride in personal work done, and traceability/responsibility for any queries,

 

I supplied the stamps, with the smith's name on, given to them when they were qualified and capable of doing the tasks assigned to them.

 

When they moved on they took the stamps with them.

[NorthSmith]

Thanks for comments guys. I can understand when stamping on company name, and a small sign on who made it. This is not the case.
I was the one who made/makes it, then he put on his name, not the company name. Well, i am maybe just frustrated for nothing.
But thanks on the views :)

[FieryFurnace]

Thanks for comments guys. I can understand when stamping on company name, and a small sign on who made it. This is not the case.
I was the one who made/makes it, then he put on his name, not the company name. Well, i am maybe just frustrated for nothing.
But thanks on the views :)

 

It may be irritating but it is still his shop. :D

Its just one of the downsides to not working for yourself. With all of the additional stuff a shop owner/manager has to take care of, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

It is a personal preference thing though with no "standard" way of handling it.

When I had another blacksmith come in and strike for me making hammers, I permitted him to put his touchmark on the hammer in addition to mine. All he did was show up, strike, handle the hammers, and then take care of sales on ebay.

I provided the know-how, the shop, the tools, the fuel, the material, all up-front costs, and the social connections to help sell the hammers.

He was a friend so I didn't mind his mark being on the hammers.

 

If I hired out a regular journeyman, I would not allow his personal touchmark to go any company products. They would get stamped FFF and that is it. (If something went wrong with the product/client, the client would pursue the issue with the COMPANY, not with YOU.) They would get credit in the company portfolio for their contribution in work and design. (Such as "Made by Dave Custer and the skilled staff of Fiery Furnace Forge.")

 

So, I wouldn't get too frustrated. :D

[NorthSmith]

Thanks for comments guys. I can understand when stamping on company name, and a small sign on who made it. This is not the case.
I was the one who made/makes it, then he put on his name, not the company name. Well, maybe im just frustrated for nothing. But it would be weird if "you" made a knifeblade, then i put my stamp on it and get the credit for something i didnt make :s
But thanks on the views :)

[NorthSmith]

Dont mind last post. Thanks for comments, helps out alot :)

[John B]

Look at it this way, if he is happy to put his name to it, by implication your work is as good as, or better than his, No shame in that.

You don't say whether he trained you to your present standard, or you came to him already trained.

[VaughnT]

His shop.  His name.  His responsibility.  His reputation.

 

You keep saying that you did all the work, but that's not entirely accurate.  While you're at the forge banging away at hot iron, he's chasing down leads, dealing with customers, paying the light bill, sweeping floors, making phone calls... everything that you don't have the time to do because you're forging, but has to be done if orders are going to continue coming in.  

 

The best way to look at it, honestly, is as a tremendous compliment.  Not only is this guy willing to let you work in his shop, making a regular paycheck and learning the craft, but he thinks your work is good enough to carry his name.  While it might seem like he's stealing the credit, he's taking 100% of the liability for your work.

 

If I made a piece and a more experienced smith told me that he wouldn't mind putting his name on it, well, that's mighty big praise.

[LastRonin]

I'm not a professional smith at all, so this is just conjecture on my part... and a question put to those who know MUCH more than I. I fully understand the answers given already and am nodding my head thinking 'That makes perfect sense. Glad I learned something.'

 

So the question is:

Would it be inappropriate for someone in NorthSmith's situation to politely and respectfully ASK the Master Smith if he could put his own mark on the item as well?

[John McPherson]

If you are working for wages and not for a share of the business, then you can ask under what conditions you would be allowed to put your stamp under his. But you have to abide by the answer, no matter what it is.

 

If you are a junior partner in the business, then you should by right and custom be allowed to stamp under his touchmark on any piece you work on.

[metalmangeler]

one thought that might add perspective is that if you are working for wages for a corp. and on the time you are paid for you invent and patent an idea the patent would be owned by the Co. If you took their pay and patented your idea to keep for yourself, you would be stealing from them.