waste oil forge on alcohol?

[sing_j_]

Alright I'm planning on making a waste oil forge, I'm tired of trying to get a hold a coal, that's the main thing that's setting me back is getting a source of fuel and coal ain't doing it for me cause I can't get a constant supply and let's be honest it's expense to buy online. I know some of you are thinking just run gas and I just don't feel like running gas, I don't know if it's because I don't have the money to build a gas forge or what, so waste oil it is for me.

 

I was reviewing my plan with a friend and explaining how a waste oil forge worked, I mentioned that if done right someone can run diesel, kerosine, propane as well and not just waste oil. That's what brings up the alcohol part he asked if you could run a high proof alcohol like oh just for fun we'll say moonshine. I don't see why it wouldn't work and wanted to see what everybody's thoughts and feelings were about this idea and if just if anybody had ever done it and wanted to share their expereince with us. I also have a feeling it wouldn't be very cost effective to run your forge off of alcohol yet it'd still be interesting to at least find out.

[swedefiddle]

High Proof Alcohol, Moonshine, Can't get Coal, No Money, getting Wasted.

 

Sounds like quite the Party!!!!

 

Why not put your energy into a Road trip to Fernie. They load 250 Ton Pick-ups all day long. Don't park your ride so close to the pick-ups, they can't see beside them. Squish!!!! Now you need the Alcohol, just to see the Moon Shine sometimes during the day, sometimes at night. Coal is just Diamonds in the rough, needs ageing!!

 

Neil

[Will. K.]

Running a forge on alcohol sounds like a good way to set yourself on fire & burn down your shop.

[ThomasPowers]

If you have to ask this question then building a forge to use a "non-standard fuel" will probably cost you MORE than buying an expensive propane forge and that's not even counting in possible ER trips and building replacement.

 

My last propane forge cost me US$2 to build cause I am a good scrounger.  Note that the "turkey fryers" that often get junked after Christmas have a high pressure propane regulator on them and a hose you can use to boot!  I used a He party balloon tank for the shell and *found* kaowool for free at my local scrapyard.  I did buy a couple of firebrick splits to armour the floor with. Burners can be built using used plumbing parts following at standardized design rigorously!

 

If you want to experiment with burners; build a standard version *first* and learn how to modify and adjust it before branching out.  Generally people take years to gain the skills to design and build burners off the cuff and that experience is not free!

 

Finally I would suggest *NEVER* having enough untaxed liquor on hand that the ATF could make a claim that you were distributing it---that's a good way to loose property and learn shiv making in the barry place!

[sing_j_]

I'm sure your'e thinking younger person+moonshine=drinking and thats not it. I don't drink nor want too. I was just using moonshine as example cause of how high the alcohol content it has. I was just curious if it'd work at all? I know alcohol is flammable but does it combust enough to generate enough btu's that'd you could get metal hot enough. I don't have the money to buy propane and I've got plenty of waste oil laying around. Parts are not the easiest to come by around here the closest city's are a 2 hour drive and the scrap yard here doesn't allow customers to walk around cause the hutteriates here would steal scrap metal all the time. I do how ever have plenty of plumbing parts though.

[HWooldridge]

You need to know the BTU content - listed below are a few examples.

 

Natural Gas 1,030 Btu/cu ft

Propane 2,500 Btu/cu ft or 92,500 Btu/gal

Methane 1,000 Btu/cu ft

Landfill gas 500 Btu/cu ft

Butane 3,200 Btu/cu ft or 130,000 Btu/gal

Methanol 57,000 Btu/gal

Ethanol 76,000 Btu/gal

 

Fuel Oil

Kerosene 135,000 Btu/gal

#2 138,500 Btu/gal

#4 145,000 Btu/gal

#6 153,000 Btu/gal

Waste oil 125,000 Btu/gal

Biodiesel – Waste vegetable oil 120,000 Btu/gal

Gasoline 125,000 Btu/gal

[ThomasPowers]

Note; just how were we to know that you were "younger"?

 

I did not assume that Moonshine=Drinking.  I did assume that having enough around the place was a bad idea if the G-men show up.  (I'm from the ozark mountains of NW AR; my college roomate's mother used to be set on watch for revenooers when her family was running a still in the hills back in the day...some branches of my family I have politely never asked...)

 

95% alcohol fueled the V2 rockets and will definitely fuel a forge.  However it's a trickier fuel to use than waste oil due to low viscosity and ease of vapourization (actually that makes it easier to use; but allows for more problems)

 

Ifn I was looking to dispose of amounts of such stuff I might think of seeing if I could mix it with my waste oil to make it a bit "thinner" so to speak; but again once you go changing the parametes to a working system you are back in experimental stage and *how* *many* *tries* did it take Edison's workers to figure out a usable filament for a light bulb?

 

Waste oil forges can be fancy using a gun from a fuel oil furnace to atomize the stuff or simple with a drip system onto a heated plate.  They run very hot and were common industrial forges.  (Generally made of hard firebrick, so a warm up period and cool down period and great production in the middle! They do tend to stink...)

 

If that is what you have I'd concentrate on that and not wonder about other "exotic" fuels until you master that one.

[LastRonin]

I believe it was a theoretical/hypothetical question, not a statement of intent. Many of the replies sound like the writer thinks sing_j_ was planning to use shine. I've seen this before when I asked a theoretical/hypothetical question. Sometimes it's interesting to just conjecture on the possibilities of an idea without the intent of attempting it.

[Steve Sells]

Making alcohol for fuel is more expencive than the coal, after you get sugars and yeast, you still have to have energy and equipment to distill that to get the alcohol, and the taxes for fuels are lower than the drinkable products, but still not cheap, you also need federal and state licensing, and training certificates for to be allowed to do it legally.  your milage may vary.

[ThomasPowers]

When one is discussing possible illegalities on an open forum it is wise to couch them as hypotheticals.

When one wishes to dissuade someone from possible actions one tends to use the strongest means possible!

 

Now you might study the burner system of the V2 to get an idea of one way to produce massive amounts of heat energy using alcohol.

[sing_j_]

Yup don't want to use alcohol to much of a hassle tinkering when I need to just figure out and produce a solid running waste oil forge was just asking the question for my friend who was curious about it that's all

Thomas i didn't think about the alcohol evaporating that'd become a big problem like gasoline and I'm probably going to look into that V2 burner system just to see how it works and if there's any ideas from it that could work with waste oil into future forges.

[2Tim215]

Hi

 

I have been using waste veg oil for two yrs now. Started with a home made nozzle and then upgraded. I use my knife forge to weld Damascus and though I am back onto coal for smith work I have designed three forges for smith work using waste oil. It does work but you need a compressor first, and then you need the right nozzles - My web has a whole breakdown of it with the BTU breakdown etc. 

 

 

They work like a dream, can be free if you make friends with the local chip shop but require regular cleaning and some maintenance. I will never go back to gas and the only reason I am using coal for smith work is I prefer it's flexibility and the Zen like hand blower LOL

 

If you need help PM me.

 

Tim

[2Tim215]

Sing asked how mine runs so I PM'd all the info and have also placed it here if anyone is interested. Mods - if you think that the links are inappropriate then pls delete.

 

Hi

 

First off - check out my web page with the oil forge info :http://fireandforge.wozaonline.co.za/Projects

 

This DIY burner worked well but didn't quite get the heat I wanted. I eventually imported some hago nozzles from the states. Here is a link: http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/showitem.cfm/HAGO_030L2160

 

This is the adapter that you need with it: http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/showitem.cfm/66720

 

This is how you set it up :

 

 

Here is a link to vid explaining it:

 

This vid is basically what I based mine on:

 

But I went my own way. He uses a set up that starts with gas then switches over to oil - I by passed that. I use a 350mm x 50mm pipe with a 2mm wall thickness. The pick of the nozzle setup is exactly like mine. My nozzle is inserted into the pipe with front of the nozzle just under 3" from the front of the pipe. It must be exactly center to spread the vapor right. Once the oil is vaporized I use a blow torch to light it - it's as simple as that.

The reason I use a compressor is that I run my forge at 2 bar pressure - I have found that this is optimal for the heat I need to weld Damascus with my burner set up and the nozzles I have. I can also lower the pressure and strangle the oil flow to cool the forge for HT. I can't recall, but I think I am using a .65 gallon nozzle which gives me about 2.5 ltrs an hour.

 

Here is a link to the different nozzles: http://www.patriot-supply.com/search_new.cfm?old_search=nozzle&q=siphon+nozzle&search=Go

 

I have used these nozzles with diesel, waste motor oil and veg oil and sometimes the two diluted at various ratios with diesel, but now I just use used veg oil and it MUST be veg oil - never palm oil - palm oil blocks the nozzle.

 

It does require maintenance - you need to keep the nozzles clean and your oil clean and you need to replace the o rings every now and then as they get hard and crack. The oil can be in a container at the same height as the burner, but I keep mine raised about 500mm above it. My oil goes through 100mm to 50mm reducing PVC fitting and is filtered through 3 old stockings before it goes into the container.

 

I have three stop cocks between the container and the burner for the oil inlet and a air regulator and shut off valve on the air inlet and though I have sometimes been stupid and have allowed oil to flow into a yellow hot forge without any air flow I have never had it set alight or any blow outs - this is by far the safest forge I have ever worked with. If you use a compressor then you don't need a blower or a gas lighting system. I use mine every day and have for over two yrs now.

 

hope this all helps.

 

Tim

 

Edit: You will note that if you read HWooldridge's post that waste veg oil has more BTU than propane so it's far more efficient and cheaper in my experience.

 

[Allen Gaskill]

Tim ,,,, I have been studing the youtube vid you posted for sometime .

When I was a younger man I asked my grandad how to put up a fence he told me you are a smart lad just get started and every idiot in town will come by and tell you how you did it wrong and in the end you will have a fence they will have an opinion ,,, see which will hold livestock better.