Instruction for instructors

[Maillemaker]

Evening all!

 

I'm in the process of writing a grant for my Youth Agencies course, and I've chosen to write a it for blacksmithing facilities at my local Boy Scout camp.

 

Right now, I'm stuck on budgeting:  the materials aren't difficult to source, but training the staff is something else entirely.

Let's just say, hypothetically, that you are a smith who works around central Wisconsin, and you were approached by a camp director to train two to four staff in basic blacksmithing techniques such as drawing, upsetting, punching holes, slitting with chisels, and making U- and L-shaped bends, as well as coal fire management and extremely basic metallurgy.

 

What would you charge?  Let's say that you'll have a place to sleep, and three meals a day for the duration of your stay, and that the camp would also pay a percentage of your gasoline expences.

 

Thanks!

[jeremy k]

I'd probably do it as a donation, being I was in the scouts until I got my Eagle, then was involved with a round table group that trained the trainer - we had meetings for the scout masters to attend so they could learn how to run their meetings for the scouts. That was many years ago, haven't did anything with scouting since then. If they are providing the room, board, and supplies - yea I'd probably donate a weekends worth of my time, providing it didn't inter fear with the work load at the time.

[Frosty]

By "training the staff" are you asking how much it'd cost to train someone enough blacksmithing to teach Scouts?

 

When you describe your question it sounds like you're asking what it'd cost to hire a blacksmith or two to teach Scouts.

 

If you were in my neighborhood I'd do it gratis. My time as a Scout were some of the best times of my life, give me the opportunity to return it I'd be onboard so fast your ears would pop.

 

What smiths in your area would charge is a matter of hitting the phone book, club contact list, etc. and asking. Be sure to point out any time they donate is deductible, all they'd need is a receipt from the Scouts. I'm betting more than a few smiths were Scouts and have great memories and they'd like to help young men build their own.

 

Instructor training MUST lean heavily on safety equipment and practices. You'll need eye wash and flush in the 1st. aid kit as well as burn and cut supplies. There's also a good chance you'll see some hammer mashed fingers so ice packs should be in there too. The kind you kneed around and they get cold.

 

You'd really need someone with a good first aid card, as in certified class, maybe a step better than a RedCross card. When I was a field guy and off the roads by miles for weeks at a time we got to take courses put on by the Fire dept, EMT-1 level classes. Sure, that'd be overkill but it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. thinking about now, I suppose any Scout camp will have folk skilled in first aid all over the place, wearing Scout Uniforms.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Steve Sells]

Many of us work with the local scouts, ask around for real smiths to do it.   But training a person to be able to retrain others is another matter.  How much time are your volunteers willing to put in only a month aint gonna do it, as you should know from your training to be a smith.  You can't give it away until after you have it yourself.  Teaching basic skills is one thing, being able to learn enough to now be able to train others requires more than just simple knowledge of how to swing a hammer.

[SoCal Dave]

I understand that when you are involve in teaching the teacher training, it assumes certain qualifications/experience on the part the persons being trained.  I'm not sure you have experienced people to train so that means double the work and effort on your part.  I would assume that if you asked most known blacksmith how much they would charge per day, it might be around $400.00 X the number of days.  I would then donate your time.  You might be able to get a deduction on your taxes for your effort.  At least they will know what they are getting for your effort as I think this would not be a small gift on your part.  Plus, I do think they should pay for all your gas.  You really shouldn't have much out of hand expenses for your efforts.  That is a tall order to fill, so good luck.   

[DSW]

I'd probably do it as a donation, being I was in the scouts until I got my Eagle,

 

 

 

Same here. Since I'm also an Eagle Scout, if they were covering basic expenses, I'd be doing it for free. Shame you aren't closer, I'd volunteer either to help teach, or to instruct the kids if it could be worked into my schedule.

 

 

Most of these types of programs are a basic introductory experience. Biggest issue will be safety, especially around things like hardie tools like hot cuts that can cost a kid a finger in the blink of an eye if he slipped or was careless. ( not a tool I'd have available for most of them to work with) Besides the basic safety things like eye protection, hearing protection etc and the care needed around hot metal,

 

 

There's going to be a limit to how much info you are going to be able to impart on the "instructors", especially those with no previous experience, in a limited amount of time and then expect them to impart these things to the scouts. I'd keep things pretty basic.  Drawing out tapers, bending curves, twists, maybe fullering with a guillotine tool, possibly punching and drifting.... I'd probably key the skills to certain scout oriented projects.... Yes the will all want to make swords and knives....( sigh)   :rolleyes:  I was thinking more tent stakes, possibly small drifted tomahawks, hooks, fire pokers, the ubiquitous railroad spike "knife" ( letter opener) ,a  nice camp trivet to hold a pot over a fire, spoons. I'm sure we could come up with a bunch more ideas if we though about it some.

 

 

Since the "instructors" won't have done any of this before, basically teach them how to do the projects you think up, then all they have to do is teach the kids how to do the project just like they did.

 

 

One thing that might help would be to do a step by step "manual" for each project with step by step picts. Something of a basic reference to go by. These could either be made up as a book to have available to work from, or printed out as handouts for each kid. I'm betting it wouldn't be hard to get some guys here to help you get that rigged up. Each person picks one project, then documents what they do step by step with pictures.

 

 

It's been a long day and I'm starting to ramble a bit, but I think you get my drift.

[ThomasPowers]

Basic training to smith is a whole lot simpler than training to train others to smith; just how to look at a beginner and suggest a different hammer weight or handle length or anvil height or different body mechanics so they don't do long term injury to their body---is not something a couple of days will cover.

 

In general you want someone who has made and LEARNED from all the mistakes and can deal with scouts to boot.  (My scout troop experiences were a blast; sometimes literally. My scoutmaster was an EMT and now runs a wilderness school; but we were the "rough" troop in town. Didn't produce many Eagles but did a lot of camping and first aid...)

[divermike]

No idea on fees, but having a copy of ABANA's controlled hand forging would be a great place to start training the trainers.