windancer Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The fella in the video was spraying his billets with WD40 before they went into the forge for the first time. He was careful to spray both sides to get good penetration. He also quick fluxing after the second heat, said it wasn't required. Why the WD40? Do any of you do this? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Lucky for us, youtube is very good about making sure of facts before allowing anyone to post. ;) Everything I have been told and done; involves getting the billet as clean as I can. Adding oils like the fish oils of WD-40 seems to counter that. While I am sure it will help keep the air off the billet, I am not sure how it helps the weld, ask any welder about oily vs a clean surface. Then again any engineer will tell you how on paper a bumble bee can not fly, and if we drive faster than 60 MPH we can not breath either. I have never tried oiling my billet before forge welding, nor do I plan too with out more information as to what is happening to the weld this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Guys who can weld often use WD-40 to displace the air in their cans. Are you sure that this was not what you saw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Keyes Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The idea is to keep air (which causes scale) away from the surface of the steel. The oil flashes off and creates a layer of carbon, sealing the surface and burning out any O2. Often in a dry weld (no flux) you spray the billet before sealing up the last welds. WD40 works, superglue works, kerosene works (you soak the billet in it BEFORE putting it in the forge). Often when makers are doing a can billet, they will squirt some oil in the can, or put a piece of paper in the can, to flash off any O2. If you don't have exposure to air, you can't scale. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Kind of blending two fairly different process's here. Can welding and billet welding outside of cans. I use kerosene in a can. For outside of can billets I am very traditional i my ways. I grind each and every mating surface. and tack a handle on one end, and wire the stack every two inches or so. I place inn forge that is preheated and turned off. I want the entire piece to warmup all the way to the center. Then I fire the forge up and flux the piece with twenty mule team. If it does not stick I warm a bit more til it does. I do not let the piece come to a color that makes me think scale is forming before I flux. When I do the first weld I have a lot of time in prepping the piece. I do not want to have issues in a welded billet. When I draw the billet out I remove every big of scale from every side to be welded, then repeat the steps above.I wire brush the sides and reflux before each and every heat. I do not forge except at a welding heat. I use new steel for my billets, and wot I do is working. Twenty mule team works. It stops oxygen from scaling the metal where the layers weld. Use wotever you wish, many other things works also. WD40 the way I see things will burn up long before you have heated to welding temp. And as above,,inside a can is not the same. WD, paper kerosene or wotever may use up all of the oxygen and prevent the scale. I cringe when I see,,"it was in a utube video" GASp! it is just like here!..we do not know the qualifications behind the person doing it on video or in here...have to sort out validity for ourselves. However at least on here a quick request for pics of some of their work will help sort that out. And if you would like to see some of my work, check out the knife making tutorials including the advanced series on pattern welded steels. Of course the series of books by JPH, the complete bladesmith and the other two should be in every shop. I also learned a lot from his two vhs videos on making pattern welded blades. And never forget more is learned in shop than at a keyboard. Use the net to make a plan and then do that plan,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yes I remember one video from several years ago that started "I've never done this before and this is how you do it..." Why folks with no experience think that showing their mistakes as proper technique is a valuable addition....(and losing the truely great ones in the morass of bad to mediocre ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 randomly scrolling through the interwebs today hit this thread on the head when I found this little gem. It has been empirically proven in 1999, by psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in their report "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I know several knifemakers who use kerosene with perfect results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 KY in cans or welding without cans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 kerosene is a lot different that WD-40 also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Fish oils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 look it up, one of the early componants of DW-40 was fish oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 This was a well known knife maker who makes and uses a lot of his own Damascus. No Cans. I am just finishing up two weeks forging Damascus. No Cans. I was simply curious what the WD40 does, and if anyone here uses it. I have never see anyone else using it. Interesting comments. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Give it a try and let us know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Keyes Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I have used the kerosene trick on second welds and on "dry" welds. I'm too chicken to try it on a primary weld, but I've seen it done. As it was explained to me, as the material burns it sucks O2 out from between the layers and it deposits a carbon film on the surfaces. The carbon seals the surfaces (and might even add a tiny bit of carbon to the stack) and prevents scale. I have superglued stacks of tiles together (to flip a pattern) with good results as well. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I use wd 40 on all my billets , I store my cut steel in the stuff I found it improved my welding so now I spray it on before putting the billet in the forge . borax does nothing until its liquid so I figure that the light oil between the layers is using up any available oxygen that is trapped there. once the billet is warm enough for borax to stick I flux as normal. I have made hundreds of kilos of damascus this way. My figuring is that if you can help prevent the early low temp oxides forming all the better, but figuring aside it defiantly works. Making damascus is all about finding a best practice that works for you and sticking to it.......many ways to skin a cat (including using fish oil no doubt)....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Thanks Basher,,may give it a try with your method,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Basher and I dont agree all the time, but he does wonderful things in metal, and if Basher says it works, thats good enough for me. Since stainless steel recovers almost all of its maximuml chrome oxide layer within about 15 minutes exposure to air after grinding, I will have to try it. Anything that helps is worth a try. I love this place. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Basher, thanks for posting your use and your reasoning for use. Maybe some folks will think a minute before they jump on something just because they haven't tried it or never heard it before. On my current batches I was tempted to try milk of Magnesia before stacking as was suggested on IFI. Wasn't curious enough. I did try to flux before stacking and that was a mess. I think I will try this on my next batch of Damascus. It can't possibly make it any harder :) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 who was jumping, questions were asked, answers were given? I also stand by my first post, you tube is fun, but with out back up of who posted, who did it and what qualifications they have, which you did not include, its hard to tell fact from fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 If you were concerned as I had posted...for sure I had not tried it...and I think I pretty clearly explained my thoughts. If you consider that as offensive to you then I will keep that in mind for the future,,,hope it works well for youi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 I was not and am not offended. I watched the entire video [about an hour] and watched from stacking the billet, spraying it with WD40, through the forge welding and the final completed billet. I use paper in can Damascus and leave a tiny hole. Into the forge and when the smoke stops coming out I finish the weld and get on with it. The posts on this thread have taught me some new things including kerosene and super glue. And the gent in the video is not the only one using his method. Requesting names or proof of anything or who did it are not in my makeup. Years ago when I started making knives and hanging out at knife making forums I soon realized that posted advice needed to take into account who the poster was :) Forums have saved me years of figuring out every little thing on my own. Learning must still take place, and tons of time at the forge and anvil. I love this forum and appreciate ALL the postings, weather they make sense to me or not. I believe most posts are created with a genuine wish to help. I have pretty thick skin and don't get offended or angry until I figure out that offense or anger is the hoped for reaction. We are all different and I appreciate that fact too. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 ...Requesting names or proof of anything or who did it are not in my makeup. Years ago when I started making knives and hanging out at knife making forums I soon realized that posted advice needed to take into account who the poster was :)... Dave hmmmm maybe I missed something here, because it seems that these two lines from your post are a contradiction to me. You wont share who did it or any proof? but you want to know details yourself? IFI is all about sharing information, hard to do that this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Sharing is exactly why I started this post. I had never seen or heard of anyone spraying a new stack with WD40 and I wondered if anyone had used this or heard about someone using it. Sorry you see a contradiction in the two thoughts, can't help you with that :) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I am easily confussed, but as I already said, it good to know it helps no matter where the idea came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now