RKM556 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Hello all! I hope you don't mind the rage in my topic box. Okay, so I have been in and out of practice with forge welding, and most of the time now I can weld the piece of steel I am using when I am practicing forge welding. So what works in practice works in real life right? Wrong. EVERY time I try to forge weld on the real thing it never sticks! Not even a little bit!! I brush and flux with Borax at a bright red heat, put it back into the fire until it's that beautiful temperature right before it starts sparkling, tap it lightly then woopdeedoo! It doesn't even start to stick. What am I doing wrong? I am attempting to forge weld the eye of small tomahawks just to give you an idea of the project im working on. Let me know what you think! Thanks so much for all and any help! Your friendly neighborhood inexperienced blacksmith-in-the-making, Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Greetings Ryan, Sounds like ya got a problem... Try letting your metal heat soak longer... Clean fire.... Fast flick to the floor to remove flux and junk.... Try this a few times on a simple fagot weld... Try heating and fluxing in the fire till it sticks.... If it don't stick in the fire all the thumping in the world won't help... Good luck Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKM556 Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sure thing! I have definitely not been flicking it towards the floor. That may be the problem... I may also need to heat it longer. Like I said, I'm inexperienced. I'll try those things tomorrow and come back with pictures or something. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Is your fire clean and do you have a deep fire with good heat? Is your metal clean as in clean with a wire brush clean? Clean (wire brush) and flux at medium red Clean (wire brush) and flux at high orange. Bring it up to yellow (mild steel) and soak the metal so the inside and the outside are the same temperature. Does it want to stick together in the forge? Bring it up to just starting to throw sparks and quickly take it to the anvil and BUMP (not hit) the two pieces of metal together. If it sticks together, than back into the forge and back up to just below sparkling heat. Bump it again, then at yellow hammer lightly to set the weld. Reference material Forge Welding S0002 Making Your First Forge Weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 As I progressed in my albeit limited knowledge of smithing, forge welding always gave me more fits than anything else. Things that helped me: - Bring the blast and corresponding heat up quickly, then cut the blast to a whisper and let it soak. You tend to get less burning of the parent material. - I use a commercial flux from a known supplier. Many people can use borax successfully but I am not one of them. For most welding, I use Crescent flux. - The scarf is important so it pays to watch those smiths who can forge one correctly (like Mark Aspery). - Practice...and do it when you are in a relaxed state of mind. It's easy to get angry and lose focus - after you have some success, it will become second nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 The more up-tight you get, the more it won't work. Relax, tell it to weld, and it will. Take 7" of 3/8 round, make chain links, link them together (1+1=3, 3+3=7, 7+7=15, etc). When you get good at chain, you will have learned patience, as a side you will also get good at fire-welding. Try forgetting the flux sequence once in a while, you will also learn to weld without flux. If the link is welded, it will bounce with a ting. If it isn't welded it won't bounce and it will make a flat noise. Just my $.02 :) Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I can't add anything useful that hasn't already been said about technique. A question pooped into my head based on you original post though. You say this failure to weld is happening while making a hawk. Are you making this hawk from mild with a steel edge, or is it a single piece of leaf spring? I ask because I know some springs (containing chromium) don't like to stick to themselves, no matter what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I can't add anything useful that hasn't already been said about technique. A question pooped into my head based on you original post though. You say this failure to weld is happening while making a hawk. Are you making this hawk from mild with a steel edge, or is it a single piece of leaf spring? I ask because I know some springs (containing chromium) don't like to stick to themselves, no matter what you do. That was my question too, just what are you trying to weld together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKM556 Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Okay, so it appears practice is just going to have to be the thing with this! (Just kidding, everything in blacksmithing takes practice!) I will be trying everything you guys said. I think i haven't been soaking it long enough. However, even when I forge at night, the metal only seems to get to a very bright orange color before it starts to sparkle. As far as I know, I'm using A36 steel. Maybe its just the fact I only have one eye and I don't see colors like you guys ;) The steel I'm using for the body of my hawks is (I'm almost positive), mild steel. Thanks for all your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno C. Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Are you using a Gas or Coal forge? To me it sounds like you are not getting enough heat. Can you get your metal to White or Burning ? If so, then your forge should be hot enough to weld, maybe it is your soak time like others have mentioned. How far away is your anvil from your forge ? And was it cold when you started hitting ? I had that problem before, especially with smaller items I'd try to weld, smaller billets mostly. If you don't move fast enough from fire to Anvil, it may have cooled to much to be welded. Also, I've tried forge weld before, right after I start up my forge, let it get to heat, only to hit the item on a cold/cool/Not warm enough anvil. With smaller pieces, the anvil will suck the heat right out of it. Proper scarfing and cleaning always helps. Some can do without it, but clean steel always worked better for me. Sometimes hitting to hard causes failed welds also. I've smashed the heck outta some billets and they look welded, untill I hit them again, or they cool down and simple peel apart. I would suggest you take a step back and take a breath and try again. .02 Cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBrassaw Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm collecting all these pennies, BTW. This post alone has just about made my retirement account double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 What is the size difference between your practice metal and your hawk metal? If your hawk is thicker, I would suspect you're getting impatient and not letting the heat soak through enough, if you can weld the same steel in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 As I understand it A36 isn't a particular steel, it's an engeniring standard. It may be just about anything that meets the standard for performance. Some times you get inconsistencies that bite you in the butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKM556 Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 The size of my forging steel is much bigger than my practice steel. that very well may be the problem. I'm up for round two! It's just been dangerously hot to forge in Georgia these past four days. 90 degrees with humidity thrown in. Just waiting for it to cool down later this week back to normal temps before I sit in my shop for hours on end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.