Getting Started

[RiffRaff]

For all of you business owners out there.  What is the best way for me to approach a blacksmith shop for a job as someone with no experience?  I want to learn this craft, and although I know I could teach myself with time, there is nothing better than learning from a pro.

 

I live in Northern CA and a string of internet searches only came up with 2 blacksmith listings in my area. 

 

From the research I've done it seems to me that blacksmiths as a whole tend to be pretty down to earth people who are happy to impart their knowledge onto spongy minds eager to learn.

 

I am currently unemployed so a paid position would be ideal, but is it typical to get a paid apprenticeship with no experience?

[Dan C]

Welcome, I would first recommend learning to search & sift thru the information that is already on the forum.  Here is a very recent thread asking a similar type question, albeit for sword smithing apprentice, but the answer should be the same.

 

'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard. I'm afraid I'd be repeating myself all too soon if I tried answering your question here. Check out the Apprenticeship thread running now for the basic answers. Not to try discouraging you but it's not likely you'll find one in America this century.

 

Hook up with the CBA and see if you can find a smith close enough to you who doesn't mind you visiting, just don't expect him/er to take you on as an apprentice, it's just too expensive and high risk. You'll be able to network, find tools and supplies through the CBA and locate local smiths.

 

You're best bet is going to be finding a job that'll support you well enough you can enjoy learning the craft while buying the tools you'll need to make the tools you'll need. You can make by hand all but the heaviest tools, say anvil and post vise but you can use a field expedient for the anvil, almost any heavy piece of steel will make an anvil. The London pattern anvil is a recent addition to the craft, maybe 200 years old probably more recent. Even square blocks of iron are relatively recent and high dollar. some exquisite work has been done on boulders for hundreds of years.

 

I'm afraid you're probably going to have to come up with your own kit, build your own fires and do as much hammering as you can with the occasional help from experienced smiths. It's gong to test your determination, resourcefulness and talent, but if you can stick to your guns it'll reward you in ways that are hard to describe. Believe me, few things in life are as soul deep rewarding as being able to take other people's useless junk and make useful valuable things from it. Few things feel as good as using tools you've made with your own hands.

 

Don't forget to start reading through the sections that interest you here, drag up a comfy chair, pack a lunch and something to drink, there's a LOT you can read. Once you've done some reading and hammering you'll know what questions to ask and better yet understand the answers.

 

I may sound discouraging right now but the whole gang and I are pulling for you.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[HWHII]

Over the years I have had people come to my shop with the same request. I run a small shop and do all the work myself. What I have done for them is invite them over to watch me work and I will teach them as I go. I currently have a young man who comes buy on his day off and spends the day working with me. He helps me in exchange for the knowledge I can give him.

[BCROB]

Over the years I have had people come to my shop with the same request. I run a small shop and do all the work myself. What I have done for them is invite them over to watch me work and I will teach them as I go. I currently have a young man who comes buy on his day off and spends the day working with me. He helps me in exchange for the knowledge I can give him.

right on , a response I believe the original poster was looking for and good on ya HW for helping out the young'en's  

[RiffRaff]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Another question I have is about ferriers.  I know blacksmith is a pretty general term, and ferriers are a specialized niche within the community, but there are a lot of horses in my area and more ferriers than listed blacksmiths.  Is that a decent way to both learn the skills of smithing and learn a needed trade to pay for the hobby side of learning what I actually want to do?

[Frosty]

The farrier's craft is a good living but tough on the body. There's lots of responsibility too, one badly placed nail can cripple a horse. There's been a sometimes friendly banter between blacksmiths and farriers for a long time.

 

The modern farrier's trade can be kind of shallow as can blacksmithing, it's up to the individual practicing. For instance some farriers only cold fit shoes from a box, just like some "blacksmiths" depend on benders, welders, drills, purchased components, etc. and virtually never light a fire or use a hammer for more than forcing something together.

 

In either case it's not a reflection on the craft but some individuals who take the fast easy route. A good farrier can typically watch a horse walk for a bit and tell if it needs orthopedic shoes, how much where and how to correct. A good set of shoes can actually permanently correct some problems by taking pressure off injured joints or redirecting it so the horse evens it's own gate, learns how to walk and is good.

 

It's a highly trained and demanding trade and a good farrier usually has a backlog of customers with new ones rolling in and it's largely word of mouth trade.

 

I don't know what the average professional lifespan is for farriers but it's hard on backs and knees. You're always working bent over and if a horse decides s/he doesn't like you one little push the wrong way with the raised leg and your knee is going to be out of commission for a while or maybe for good. One of the things you MUST learn is how to handle horses, just one thing. Horses have evolved relying on their legs and feet for survival, without sound legs and feet they're food. As a farrier you're messing with their feet and you're having to deal with a few million years of evolved hardwired instinct to protect themselves.

 

If you trip the wrong trigger, even the most docile, well behaved old horse will do a serious number on you in oh so many awful ways. Think about a 1,100lb. animal and you're holding one foot off the ground, tucked between your legs, sort of, it spooks and just puts half it's weight on THAT foot. THAT foot is on top of your knee so down you go but the horse gives a little cow kick, (sideways motion) so your knee now bends in a funny place sideways.

 

Or a horse may just not like you, after shave maybe? sometimes they just got up on the wrong side of the stall and decide to bite you. A typical horse can break the bones in your upper arm with a straight bite but they rarely just bite, they like to pick you up and shake. Of course there's getting kicked and even rolled on.

 

It's a good trade and the training will go a long way, you have to learn to handle horses, especially ones that don't know you but it can be learned and most horses are pretty agreeable critters. Reading their moods goes a long way towards getting along. Like any trade there are dangers and training to deal with them. Truck drivers have a huge list of things that can go wrong and a bigger list of dire consequences if they do.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[RiffRaff]

Frosty - as I'm sure you've been told many times...you are awesome, and I have a feeling I'm really going to like you haha!!  Thanks again for an enlightening response to my question.

[George Geist]

Is dangerous to assume, but it sounds like you're a young guy? For horseshoeing you really don't want to be over 35 or so if just starting out. Some do ok at it. Most don't stay with it. The unregulated nature of it along with the mental instability of most horse owners causes a high turnover of people making it a tough way to make a living.

 

It is a good way to learn blacksmithing though. Plenty of overlap in the jobs, more so than any of the other metalworking trades. Is plenty of general smiths out there who started their lives as horseshoers.

George

[RiffRaff]

Hey George thanks for stopping in.  Well since age and "young" can be very relative terms depending on the company I'll say that I'm 36, so although I don't feel "young" anymore, I also don't feel "old" yet...except for those times when I do haha.

[Glenn]

Join CBA and go to the meetings. Pack a lunch and a cold drink and read IForgeIron from beginning to end. 

 

Locate a blacksmith, check their references in the community, and show up with morning biscuits and coffee dressed for a day of donated work in exchange for the opportunity to learn. Sweep the floor, empty the trash cans, etc. Only move the tools at the blacksmiths direction. Do this once a week and you will be invited to *hold this* or *hand me that*, and when you develop a trust in each other, you will start getting the information you seek. 

 

If you need to skip a meeting, tell the blacksmith up front. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Try see bing for ornamental iron shops. Their are a few that employ smiths.

As to being a farrier. Owner "mental instability" is all to true. Most (95% or more) problems you have with a horse are Peaple problems.
Not to discourage a man with no horse handling experience. I didn't have any. But it's a very steep learning curve. If you want a long working life you learn to handle horses in a way that makes sense to a horse, often the runs afoul of the owners expectations ( this isn't Disney) I love and respect horses, but they aren't Peaple, they have a difrant worldview and social order (manners) training horses to stand, "explaining" to a horse that" yes I'm higher in the pecking order than you" dealing with psicological problems from abused horse (and their owners) is all in a days work.
Then we get to the feet, you need a firm understanding of the structur of the hoof, the unninformed and he missinformed can do a lot of dammage. Clients often have a expectation that is contrairy to the horses wellbene.
Then we come to the forge, your bread and butter is simply trimming the exces horn and corrections the groth of the hoof. Showing is a theroputic appliance. Some horses need it for the work they are expected to do, and the environment they are expected to do it in. Others need them because we have bread them for looks and not good feet.
Then comes dealing with the clients. Have I mentioned that Peaple are craZy? Horses aren't dogs, or 4 leged Peaple? Or the fact that just because John Wayne did it in the movies doesn't make it good horsemanship? I don't care If the old drunk down the street only charges $15 to trim $25 to shoe. You know, I could really use a cup of coffie...
But then again for some of us it's a vocation. I never pas up an opertunity to make a hoof pick for a kid, or a set of gate hinges for a stall door. Straighten a bent bail spike. A fid with a botle opener on the end goes a long way with the working cowboys.
Not to say there any horseshoes out their that don't like horses, or the forge...

[Frosty]

Frosty - as I'm sure you've been told many times...you are awesome, and I have a feeling I'm really going to like you haha!!  Thanks again for an enlightening response to my question.

 

I'M awsome?!? DUDE you just HAVE to raise your standards! Well, okay I AM likable.

 

Our family raised horses for a couple decade when I was a kid but Dad did his best to schedule the shoers visits when I wasn't there. Saved them time and made things cheaper nothing like a kid pestering the farrier to raise the price you know. Didn't matter, I half the guys I knew were farriers, some old school cowboys so I lived the culture from the stall side of the drugstore.

 

Charles hits it on the nose. Like dogs, there are very few badly wired horses, virtually all the problem animals are owner/handler problems. Read "The Horse Whisperer" by Monte Roberts, the man knows horses like Cesar Milan knows dogs, maybe better. Seriously, you have to be the alpha but know you're an alpha predator dealing with a prey animal. While pack behavior is similar to herd behavior there are significant differences that can trip you up in a heartbeat. I'm certainly not saying "The Horse Whisperer" will teach you to handle horses but it will help you understand the differences in how they think, how to approach and even touch them.

 

Frosty The Lucky

[Charles R. Stevens]

Lot of good horse people out there. Roberts and Brennahan, or Hunt and the Dorrance's

Some times it's hard to understand them, as like blacksmithing horsemanship has its own vocabulary, and most of them have a northwestern accent ;-)

[Frosty]

Lot of good horse people out there. Roberts and Brennahan, or Hunt and the Dorrance's

Some times it's hard to understand them, as like blacksmithing horsemanship has its own vocabulary, and most of them have a northwestern accent ;-)

 

I' afraid I've been away from horses so long I don't know today' experts, Monte is the only one I can think of. However I'm sure if I'd asked Deb she could fill me in. Deb picked up "The Horse Whisperer" some years back and raved about it enough I read it. It was full of ( well yeaaaaa) and (Hmmm, so that's why they do that) (GEEEE I wish I knew that one!) and more moments.

 

Frosty The Lucky

[Charles R. Stevens]

Lol, I didn't mention the new kids, just the old timers, Ray hunt and The Dorrance brothers are definantly old timers, Buck Brennahan and Monte Roberts aren't quite as old, my generation is Patt Perrelie, Dennis Reice, Cregg Cammeron and I'll leave the guy the Aussies sent us out, (kinda like Fossters if you ask me) as to the new kids, I don't have a clue either, but I know there is a woman ridding bare back sands head stall kicking butt and taking names!

[jgirard13]

Take some welding classes if you can afford to from yer local community college then go find a job at a welding shop (hopefully ornamental) building gates,railing, tables, chairs, window gaurds, etc. Gives you basics on metallurgy and working metals. IFI and YouTube are amazing resources. Joining a local blacksmith group is a must and go on every site you can. The Arizona artist blacksmith association has free pdf newsletters to even non members. Good luck and work hard for what you want