KjZitur Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I recently acquired an old Bull air hammer. The previous owner had been having some problems with this hammer and was ready to let it go. I figured it would be a good candidate for mounting my KZ Control kit. Here's a few pix of the start of the project.........everything tack welded and looking like it should work!....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I remember asking you if your control would work on an inverted cylinder machine at Rapid City, can't wait to see the results....... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Loving your work :D Should be a good 'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ken, that machine style is perfect for your conversion kit. I look forward to its completion and hopefully a video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 looking forward to this one :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Why you messing with those little hammers Ken :P :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Danger Its a new style -- air treadle hammer :P with control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjZitur Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Got the plumbing done. Decided to redo the treadle. I am keeping all the pivot points for the treadle and linkage on this hammer the same as on my KZ100. The only major difference then is the cylinder which has a smaller rod diameter and as macbruce pointed out is inverted. Yes John,this style of linkage set-up is easier to set up on the "C" frame types of hammers than the sword or wiper style. The sword style I had made for some R&D had a few less parts but was a little more troublesome to attach the roller (that engages the sword) to the tup. Danger, a fellow down the road a ways has a 700 lb. steam hammer just sitting there but my financial adviser (read wife) hasn't come around to my way of thinking yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ken. you have stopped using the dump valves. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 photos are required of the steam hammer. with a petition, we may be able to begin international negotiations with the financial advisor. i am also quite inspired by this thread and have been tinkering with cycliners and 5way valves in my shed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjZitur Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 The way the cylinder is mounted on this hammer the quick exhaust valves would be dumping air almost right over your work when forging so I thought I would try without them. Not to hard to put them on if it doesn't work. Had a little time to finish the treadle. Now I just need to hook up some air and see what happens......... If the snow ever melts around here and warms up a little I will get some pictures of Joe's steam hammer. Actually I am trying to get the local pioneer club here to purchase the hammer and set it up in the blacksmith shop on the show grounds. At least I would be able to use it once a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Will the TUP parts bottom out prior to the cylinder bottoming out? Do you add a spring to the bottom inside of the cylinder in case the TUP could over-extend? Do you have an approx cost of what it may require for one of "us" to create such a project? Like many I desire to have a treadle hammer...but...woul;d like more universal qualities of my machine. My current powerhammer only allows for a few inches of tooling above the hot metal. Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Thanks for answering my question. I certainly look forward to your findings. I want to achieve sustained reciprocation without the dump valves but so far have not been able to. Single blow treadle hammering is very nice without the dump valves. I'm using the setup pictured on my blog here at IFI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Will the TUP parts bottom out prior to the cylinder bottoming out? Do you add a spring to the bottom inside of the cylinder in case the TUP could over-extend? Do you have an approx cost of what it may require for one of "us" to create such a project? Like many I desire to have a treadle hammer...but...woul;d like more universal qualities of my machine. My current powerhammer only allows for a few inches of tooling above the hot metal. Carry on Ken sells a kit to convert your hammer to a steam hammer valving system http://www.kensiron.com/controlkit.html . One of these days I think I am going to buy one of his kits even though I have pretty good control on my Kinyon style hammer. It is going to be a while though, I just bought another major piece of machinery for my shop and I also have a customer who owes me for about 4 months work and I am not sure I am going to get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjZitur Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 There is no spring on the bottom side of the cylinder. There appears to be about 3/4" of stroke left in the cylinder when the dies are touching. There is however some rubber bumpers on the top side of the tup that the PO had put in place due to the hammer trying to "beat itself to death" (the way he described it) with the original Bull hammer linkage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Sam Salvatti presented some video material of my hammer on the steam hammer thread here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Ken, The original owner either had the hammer adjusted wrong or the cylinders cushion wasn't working.Or perhaps the cushion didn't work any longer due to it's being operated out of adjustment for too long a period of time and so both problems were contributing to the hammers self-destruction. :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjZitur Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 doc, that is certainly possible. I did not see the hammer in operation, all I know is what the owner had told me.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Ken I have been using a couple bulls similar to the one you are modifing. I am wondering if you expect that your system will hit harder than the original one? Also from what you have posted before I think that you expect to use less air is that correct? From your youtube videos I have seen some of the control features of your linkage, I am just wondering about things I could not see. Also I am wondering with your 150# hammer what size compressor do you need to stay ahead of the hammer in drawing mode, and what size diameter is the cylinder? Will the same kit do either one? Sorry if this is too many questions, really curious. Thank you. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjZitur Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Did a test run on the Bull hammer today. It needed 55psi to get it going. Hit pretty good. Cranked it up to 95psi and really made it rock! At the 60psi setting I was able to pound a cork into a bottle but it will need a little fine tuning. Will post a video asap. Mark, I don't have any way of knowing if it hits harder than the original one, maybe you will be able to tell me after I get a video posted. The cylinder on the KZ150 is a 2-1/2" bore. I am running my hammers with a 5hp 17cfm compressor with an 80 gallon tank. Yes it is the same kit for either hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Super news. Look forward to the video material. Congratulations. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Can't wait to see it pounding some hot steel ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjZitur Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 here's a quick video of a test run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thanks, KZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 NIce! I love those unexpected moments B) Get it hot already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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