Albert A Rasch Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Fellows, i've watched a fair number of videos of smiths using their hardiies and bottom tools. In many cases, I've seen the tools jump and jive as they are being struck. I have frequently thought, while watching, why don't they punch a slot in that shank, and drive a wedge key through that, basically what in woodworking we would call a tusk and tenon. The post "Hardie tapered or Straight" got me thinking, and then Wayne commented that his have a "U" so he can drive a wedge through them and hold them tight. So at least one person does it... Any reason why that's not done often? Regards, Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think one issue is shank on most hardy tools is to short to reach below heel of anvil.... And it also would be a issue is a quick swap of hardy tool during hammer session during "one heat"... I personally do not have a problem with hardy tool jumping and jiving around as most forces are in downward manner... Maybe its improper use that causes the "jumping and jiving"... I really don't know.... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Because a professional smith makes sure his hardy tools fit correctly and don't jump around. Thus eliminating another step in the process of hand forging production work where tooling is changed often. Or better yet he uses his tooling in a power hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Proper fit will fix the jumping too. but wedging is handy when locking the tool to the anvil will help the forging process (just like securing your anvil will help with the forging on top of it.) Part of it is a trade off speed in change over stability of tool. Most of the tools I use for my hardy are low to the anvil and are used in quick sucession of one another so the speed is key there. Some taller tools used for a longer time like a cone mandrell for arrow heads might benifit from having it wedged into the hole it all depends on how you use it. Just another personall choice. Look at the shefield knife makers and the dovetailed anvil faces and tooling they have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpeyhC-UIFg None of that jumps around but then they are limited on the speed of changeout or how many different operations they can do before a brake and changing of tooling is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowpoke Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I make a hardy sometimes from 1/4x1" flat bar. Bend the bar 180 degrees like a u-bend, and hammer the bar with a 1/2" spacer in the middle. This will give you a 1" square hardy. Cut off to the right length and weld to the top tool, and drive a 3/8"x(___) wedge in the middle - works just fine. On my Smithing Magician tool that I use on different anvils (when demonstrating) I attach a 1/2" all-thread on the end of the hardy stem. Put this through the hardy hole and install a HILL SIDE WASHER (used in assembly of metal buildings) on the under side of the anvil with a 1/2" nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think I've talked about this before, but the granite tool sharpeners used a stake with a canted face, and it was wedged through the shank slot. I've not done this kind of work, but I understand that in addition, a cutoff hardy was made especially for the pritchel hole. A foot could be attached at the base of the hardy to extend and overhang the anvil edge to keep the hardy from twirling around. The smith could then keep both tools in their permanent position without having to exchange hardy hole tooling. The smith's hammer face was also canted, so when the tool steel was struck on the business end, one got a wedge shape. . I can imagine that this was a setup for continuous work on one tool after another. Although we commonly think that leaving a hardy in place can be dangerous, I doubt that anyone would approach a professional granite tool sharpener and tell him to get the hardy out of the anvil. I think the idea was to forge the wedge and if a fish mouth ocurred, it could be cropped right away. I suspect that the wedging caused less bodily stress on the smith, as he was mostly working for long periods of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert A Rasch Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Professor T, That makes sense in that the smith was probably doing the same operation repeatedly on two specialized tools that were rarely moved. And i suppose, even a smidgen of energy lost on a single blow would accumulate by the end of the day. Thank you for the input! Regards, Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I have never felt the need to lock in a hardie tool with a wedge. I always forged my tools so they fit tight in the hardie hole. I also use my power hammer frequently for repetitive tasks and I do make sure my tooling is wedged in tight. Tools that move around make the work harder than it needs to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The smith could then keep both tools in their permanent position without having to exchange hardy hole tooling. I can imagine that this was a setup for continuous work on one tool after another. Although we commonly think that leaving a hardy in place can be dangerous, I doubt that anyone would approach a professional granite tool sharpener and tell him to get the hardy out of the anvil. I think the idea was to forge the wedge and if a fish mouth ocurred, it could be cropped right away. If the hardie(s) were at the opposite end of the anvil to the smith's hammer hand, the risk is reduced, When I used to do production runs I would either reverse the anvil or work from the other side of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I've seen quite a few and have owned 2 anvils with a modified grove under the heel for the indexing of a wedge thru a hardy shank. One of the ones I owned was a 400# Peter Wright, the one in the picture is a little 120# Peter Wright, so I would suggest that smiths doing different sizes and types of work used this idea. I have also seen a fair number of hardy tools with a rectangular hole thru the shank, most of them fairly complicated bottom swedges. Sorry, no pictures of the bottom tools. I am in that granite working area that Frank mentioned, so perhaps some smiths picked up the idea from the chisel sharpeners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Wow, thread killer? No comments guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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