Dogbyte Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If you had access to someone that worked at a RR shop, and you didnt have a real anvil yet, or money for one, what length of RR track would you ask for? a short one so you could more easily mount it? or a longer one so you'd have more mass below where your hammer strikes? I know there are trade offs for everything, but for someone just beginning, i dont know which trade offs i need to worry about at this stage. im thinking as long as i have a flat surface, and some sort of good 90 degree edge, that should be the main thing for now? copyrighted image removed at request of legal owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Most rail anvils I see are worked the other way with the ball (top of rail) as the top of the anvil and a horn and heal or double horn worked out of that so It looks like a normal anvil just small. The bigger wight the rail the bigger the anvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I use a 12" length mounted horizontally which works quite well. You could weld a short section on a longer vertical one? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Mounting a short length horizontally (like it would lay in use) increases the inefficiency of the rail as an anvil. There's a reason that you see the professional smiths always recommending that the rail be mounted vertically. Of course, what's the sense of listening to professional metal workers that have done this stuff for decades?! Similarly, mounting any anvil so that it wobbles and jumps around on the stand increases its inefficiency. Anybody that says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Of the three examples that you've shown, the one on the left is the best because it gives you the most mass/weight directly under the hammer's blow. This mass will translate into efficiency. While a london-patter anvil is nice in that it combines a lot of shapes that you can use to bend and fuller metal, that rail can be ground similarly or you can use vise-mounted tooling to accomplish what the job requires. I like the hardy holes in the other stump shown and would certainly entertain the idea of duplicating such a feature were I using a rail for an anvil Of course, if you have a friend that works for the railroad, you have a potential goldmine, and getting a section of rail would be the last thing I'd ask him for. Trains have a lot of really big chunks of iron on them, and that's what I'd be going for. The knuckle that connects the trains makes a great anvil and swage block. And a section of train axle is the absolute cat's meow for a post anvil such as we're discussing. I'd certainly love to have a section of train axle in my little smithy, and I have a slew of "proper" anvils already in there! Inquire as to what he might be able to get for you. Put the rail section at the bottom of the list, though. He might just surprise you with what he comes up with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 thanks for all the suggestions fellas. i dont have access to a welder anymore, so whatever i come up with will have to be close as can be, to its usable shape. I will ask to see what my chances are. My good friend's dad works for the RR, in their shop, he said he'd ask his dad, but you know how those deals often work out. I wont press his offer. Sure would be nice in my mind just to get a reasonable length of RR. If i somehow got a small horizontal section welded to the top of a long vertical section as was suggested, would i need to reface (flatten) the crowned surface at all? I understand that the surface is a different temper than the rest, so may not be practical. How much efficiency is gonna be lost by only stacking the two pieces, and welded where they touch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 i agree that it may just be easier, to mount like the far left pic, dress up the sides of the rail like the model on the far right, with the similar hardy hole config. i may could hew a good sized stump i have, and lag bolt the track vertically to the stump's hewed upright surface. if i take a case of beer to my buddy with a welder, i bet he can figure how to weld some cut sections of rail to the sides like in the far right pic, and then shape somehow...is there any danger of taking the temper away from the rail if you cut it with a torch ect? i know next to nothing about cutting up large pieces of metal and have them retain their purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Don't forget to give Jock Dempsey credit for the illustrations, don't want to make trouble for Glenn and co. Too late, he already did. Credit is not the issue, One should ask before taking others property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBrassaw Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'm no expert, but my advice would be to skip any welding. Use it mounted on end. You could radius the web to use as a fuller for drawing out stock, and the flat section will work fine for banging on until you find something larger. A horn can be handy, but you can make do with pipes or tapered scrap (cheap spud wrenches) held in a vise if you need something to bend around. I think the most important thing is having the mass directly under the hammer. Welding something to the top of a vertical rail is likely to decrease the efficiency of the unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Hi Dan, yes i believe that will be the simplest way. i dont wanna let perfection be the enemy of the good, i just want to get started best i can, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'm with Vaughn! Ask for the biggest hunk of solid steel you can get as long as it has at least 1 flat side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 If the end of the rail is bigger than the face of your hammer what are you worried about? I would go for vertical mounting of a piece long enough to set into the floor or get a slightly shorter piece and just cast it into a bucket of concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 I believe Hanlon's Razor applies here. It wasnt intentional. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I believe Hanlon's Razor applies here. It wasnt intentional. :P You have lost me there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 OK, I had to google it too. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon 1980 "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity" Heinlein 1941 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein "...misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent." Goethe 1774 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I am no wiser, probably just better informed. What is this about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I think it is in reference to the illustrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I think I have a piece of the puzzle missing but don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Long story short, copyrights and intellectual property. Ruffled feathers, Cease and Desist Orders. On one hand, everything on the web is transient, and could disappear tomorrow without a trace. (Anybody else miss KeenJunk?) If I want to have a record of something, I copy it and put it on my hard drive, or print it out. On the other hand, it takes money, time and bandwidth to operate a website. However easy and harmless it seems to us, if folks copy and repost images from other sites, or link to them, it eats up bandwidth and reduces revenues to the originator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm a newbie, but I've been using the piece of track seen in the background for the last 4 months and have been very pleased with the results. Initially I did try using it horizontally. The only thing I'd do differently is anchor the stand into the concrete, but I held off on doing that as my goal was to make enough money selling what I've made to buy the anvil in the foreground (which I finally did) I cut and welded another piece of steel to use as a hardy hole and then pounded it onto a 4x6 post. I also welded steel tubing onto the edges to use with rebar as a hold down. To give you an idea of the height (or length) as it sits on the wooden base the top of the track reaches the knuckles of my closed fist when standing next to it. So in my case I went for more mass which also helped get the height of my surface where I wanted it, as well as more mass under my hammer. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBrassaw Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I love the spike welded in! Very fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thanks. The spike is useful for fullering, though after discovering and making one of these for the hardy hole (which fits a RR spike as the steel top was one of those plates that sits under the track) my ability to fuller things like knives and trowels was tremendously improved. Taking a forged beer opener and a cold six pack to the local railyard was one of the best connections I've made. The guys who work there have been extremely friendly and helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSpaulding Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 dcraven, those openers look great. Sorry to hijack the thread but since it's on topic I assume it's preferred over starting another thread. Anyway, I was wondering if there were any OTHER uses for rail besides as a striking/cutting tool? I used the TPAATAPPTA method and ended up with a friend getting me a piece of rail after I didn't need it anymore. I couldn't bring myself to say no but at this point I really don't need it. I'd be glad to pass it along for what it cost me (case of beer) to someone who needs it as well but it's so nice looking I'd really like to do something with it either as a showpiece or as a tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I've seen where someone sliced off small sections of the rail and then sold them as bookends. That one also had a spike incorporated into it, I couldn't find a picture of that one. The spare track I have is going to become hardy tools though. Like you I never say no to free materials, I always can come up w/ something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 At Anvilfire there's a discussion of using Rail cross-sections to make fullers and hardy tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Flip it upside down and install heavy legs like a saw horse and use it to chisel on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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