Everything Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hi guys, I looking to get a welder for odd jobs but I've never welded before and could use some advice. I've read that a gas mig is the easiest to learn on but the price of gas makes it a bit prohibitive. A "no gas" mig is another option but this is supposed to be inferior to a gas model. BUT it can be used outside, which I think is where the majority of any welding I do would take place. The option of a no gas mig, that can be converted at a later date seems a half decent idea. The other option is an arc welder. But this is harder to learn to use apparently, though I'm unsure why. The downside with arc seems to be that I can't weld thin material, but at this stage I'm not sure how thin I would need to weld, or how often. If you guys can shed some light on it I'd sure appreciate it. Brands seem to be another big issue. I've read conflicting advice all day regarding various brands. Some are going to be different to ones over the pond but I imagine a few brands are available on both sides of the pond. Cheers Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Do you have a oxygen and acetylene outfit yet. If not, I would suggest that first. A small MIG is also a great way to go. For you on that side of the pond I would look at a ESAB unit. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 I don't have an oxy unit no. But I have access to my dads one if needs be. Wow, those easb units are way out of my price range. I should have stated my budget, £300- £400 max. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 look for a used unit, you will get more bang for the dollar (or quid) than a new unit at same price. I dont think there are many options for that budget, my MIg is convertable, brand name Century and I paid $100 US used, still going strong too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 The majority of mig's on the market seem to be Clarke or sealey. Which are good or bad depending on who you talk to. I've been looking on eBay and Oxford welders crop up at about the right price. They are arc welders but apparently bomb proof. It's probably best to be patient rather than rush into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Figure out what brand names are common, reliable, and parts easily available. Hobart, Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, and a few others qualify around here, and probably there too. Look for a USED machine in a price range you can afford, assuming you have access to power for it. A MIG that can use gas shield can be switched to flux core with little effort. Flux core wire feed probably has the flattest learning curve, but the learning curve for any of these processes is quite reasonable. with wire feed you probably will be laying decent beads in a few minutes by following the manual. An AC/DC stick welder is the most versatile electric welder, since changing process for different materials or applications is as simple as changing the machine settings and picking up a different stick. Stick is a bit harder to master, but fairly easy to learn the basics on a single rod. You probably will need to make some practice welds and burn up a pound or two of rod before doing a project. (There are a wealth of comparable AC only rods for most applications, so don't rule out AC only machines if your budget demands it) Otherwise you should skip buying a machine for now and register for some classwork, use the school machines, then after becoming proficient decide what machine you will buy for yourself. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjh66 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Find some classes to do or someone who can teach you before buying any. Stick welders are versatile, rods are mild steel, low hydrogen, cast, stainless, hardfaceing, tool steel. Another thing to consider when buying is the power source needed to run the machine. Don't discount the cheap import stick welders either. I have a cheap $90 130amp stick welder that I got about 6 years ago with 3 yr warranty. plugs into a standard household power point. Small & light weight. You can buy bigger & better later. Stick welders can be used in the wind on rusty material even painted, just scrap enough paint off to start an arc & watch out for the fumes. The other thing to consider would be a tig welder which most can be used as a stick welder also. AC / DC tigs are better then a straight DC tig as you need AC for aluminium welding. I think 1st is some classes then think about what type of work you will be doing with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermit Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You can "home school" yourself. You can attend FREE welding courses at U of Y also. (University of YouTube). Yeah it's not formal welding instruction, but it will help dramatically with the learning curve. As far as a machine, here is just another opinion..... Buy a MIG welder. Running mig (GMAW) or flux core (FCAW) are similar but two different processes. A person can make beautiful welds with FCAW, IF they have a good machine (and they know what they're doing). Many newbie and hobbiest welders have a problem of using an inferior machine that just put out the voltage (heat) needed for good flux core weld beads. I believe that if you buy a cheapo welder, you'll have cheapo welds. I say, save some more money for another few months and read/learn more about mig welding in the mean time. Once you have enough money, buy a descent welder. Many people falsely believe that mig welding is like working a hot glue gun. Or that mig welding is "easy." I'm here to tell you that everyone I've met that says its easy, usually can't produce a weld that looks any better than fresh camel snot or rotten rope! I'm not talking about an experienced welder either. Another problem with MIG welding is that someone that doesn't have much experience one day thinks they are laying down "good looking welds." Unfortunately, the biggest problem with MIG welding for the inexperienced is that the weld "looks" great, but is cold and only a surface bead. I've only covered a small perspective of MIG welding here. When I suggested YouTube learning, you'll learn to see crappy welds where people think they know what they're doing. If you wanna see some great "how to" videos on welding, look up "weldingtipsandtricks" and "chuckE2009" on YouTube. You'll learn a lot. Again, these are just my opinions. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You can "home school" yourself. You can attend FREE welding courses at U of Y also. (University of YouTube). Yeah it's not formal welding instruction, but it will help dramatically with the learning curve. As far as a machine, here is just another opinion..... Buy a MIG welder. Running mig (GMAW) or flux core (FCAW) are similar but two different processes. A person can make beautiful welds with FCAW, IF they have a good machine (and they know what they're doing). Many newbie and hobbiest welders have a problem of using an inferior machine that just put out the voltage (heat) needed for good flux core weld beads. I believe that if you buy a cheapo welder, you'll have cheapo welds. I say, save some more money for another few months and read/learn more about mig welding in the mean time. Once you have enough money, buy a descent welder. Many people falsely believe that mig welding is like working a hot glue gun. Or that mig welding is "easy." I'm here to tell you that everyone I've met that says its easy, usually can't produce a weld that looks any better than fresh camel snot or rotten rope! I'm not talking about an experienced welder either. Another problem with MIG welding is that someone that doesn't have much experience one day thinks they are laying down "good looking welds." Unfortunately, the biggest problem with MIG welding for the inexperienced is that the weld "looks" great, but is cold and only a surface bead. I've only covered a small perspective of MIG welding here. When I suggested YouTube learning, you'll learn to see crappy welds where people think they know what they're doing. If you wanna see some great "how to" videos on welding, look up "weldingtipsandtricks" and "chuckE2009" on YouTube. You'll learn a lot. Again, these are just my opinions. Good luck. First of all Hello. second you are incorrect I can take a "little Cheapo welder" as you call it a Very simple 110v welding with .025 wire and weld up to but not limited to 3/8's work very proficiently and yes MIG is very easy with less then a few hours I have Trained many folks how to use a MIG welder to the ability they have welded up to 1/2 plates, and made pads. However , Trying to get the same person to weld with an Arc or Oxy & acetylene torch takes much more time .you can serf the net all you wish sir . there are many Videos that any one can find on how to do many things it does not make them the correct thing to do . Nothing supersedes a quality, qualified, Welding Teacher to show you the proper welding procedures so you do not form bad habits. Yes I weld One way My children will be on it ,in it or around it , some time in their life. Best Regards Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJP Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hi Mac If you never welded before ,i would suggest go and do a welding course ,there should be handyman courses around ,or borrow a mig welder from someone or hire one over a weekend and ask a friend one that can weld ( beer is a great persuader).By the end of it you should be in a far better position to make the right decision. i would strongly recommend a Mig, within an hour you should be able to lay down a goodlooking weld , as compared with stick (manual arc) the same quality weld would take you 2 days or more . take that from someone who taught welding for a living. good luck HJP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermit Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 First of all Hello. second you are incorrect I can take a "little Cheapo welder" as you call it a Very simple 110v welding with .025 wire and weld up to but not limited to 3/8's work very proficiently and yes MIG is very easy with less then a few hours I have Trained many folks how to use a MIG welder to the ability they have welded up to 1/2 plates, and made pads. However , Trying to get the same person to weld with an Arc or Oxy & acetylene torch takes much more time .you can serf the net all you wish sir . there are many Videos that any one can find on how to do many things it does not make them the correct thing to do . Nothing supersedes a quality, qualified, Welding Teacher to show you the proper welding procedures so you do not form bad habits. Yes I weld One way My children will be on it ,in it or around it , some time in their life. Best Regards Sam Hi Sam and thank you for the welcome. Unfortunately, a 110v mig welder and .025 wire will not sufficiently penetrate 3/8" mild steel, no-way, no-how. Maybe by the skin of your teeth using pre-heat first, that might marginally work at best. However, "marginally" for most people won't cut it at all. 1/4", is a better shot, but even then a 110v welder is marginal. Yes, many people make "beautiful" looking welds with a 110v mig welder. The weld can "look" beautiful on 1" steel too. The problem is that the weld bead just sits on top of the steel and never penetrates to form a strong weld. This is exactly the problem with mig welding. Beautiful looking welds that are just to cold to be strong and sound. A good analogy for a 110v mig welder on steel thicker than 3/16" is like saying a jeweler's tack hammer can make boulders into grains of sand. Sure it's possible, but its going to take forever and ever to do so. Same goes with a 110v mig welder, welding thick steel (anything over "sheet metal" thickness). Problem is, the 110v welder's duty cycle will crap out before thicker steel over 3/16-1/4" gets hot enough to take the weld bead properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If you are getting a mig and have 400 quid have a look at what BOC have at one of their trade quip centres as they have some good cheaper welders now (Murex etc) . in the Uk welders have come down a lot so what was a £1200 welder can now be got for £800. and welders that I would find exceptable exist for under £500. welders are like cars they break and can be fixed so make sure the one you buy has a dealer nearby to prepare it or get parts. the advice to do a class is good advice. most Tech colleges run evening classes. All the best Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Thermit , the # 1 thing in Welding is to Properly prepare the welding material to be welded (IE Beveling ,preheating, welding Cycle of machine, the material to be welded, and the correct Knowledge of how to do it ) Old Weldor's die hard I would guess the concept of welding water is something you would take in a literal term ? yet it is often used by many an old Weldor it means if it can be done it has been done ! Best Regards Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Hi guys. Cheers for all the advice. I spent an afternoon with my dad on Monday (an engineer) who has a murex mig welder. As luck would have it the unit round the corner is a welding fabricators, so we got some scrap and set to it. My first attempts were naff. I was moving too fast and burnt through a few times. But after about 20 minutes I got the hang of it. As said it was relatively easy. Dad showed me what happens with incorrect settings and how to fix it. He's got a stick welder too but I didn't use that as I had to leave. I'd like another afternoon to have a play around but I much more confident to jump in and get a mig welder now. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Hey Mac good to hear you got some welding time in ,now you know a lil bit about it I hope you can have some fun with it . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 If your interested in a flux core welder(the no gas mig setups) then you can get a small portable unit from harborfreight for around $100. These are by no means a top quality unit, but I have one and it works for my needs. Several will say these units are junk and will nt last. They may be right, but for how often i weld I have had mine for over 2 years and all I have ever had to replace is the spool of wire. As for a Stick welder I feel a lincoln is the best you can get. I am by no means a professional or an expert. However, the tombstones are great welders. Stick is a little harder to learn compared to mig, but with a little instruction and practive, its not to bad. Good luck and have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneeholiday Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I'm studying sculpture at the local University, and while they don't have a welding program, I am in "Metal Fabrication" which touches on the basics of most things in the metal shop. I have done a bit of mig and OA, but haven't tried the stick at all. after reading these threads and seeing some ok priced tombstones in local CL, now I gotta learn! However, I have no garage, am using carport as workspace. The dryer outlet would require a LONG cord (probably 20'+), so maybe I should focus more on OA since my dad has a rig I can use at his home, across town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I welded for a lot of years in an apartment or rental house using a 50' 230v extension cord run off either the dryer or range outlet. I still have that 50' cord that I can use if need be to get the machine out to the middle of the drive way if needed. I've worked with quite a few sculpture students before the local college moved the arts program to the main campus. Each student learned a different process depending on what type of sculpture they wanted to do. Everyone at the tech school had to start with stick where I was at the time before moving on to other processes. The students interested in heavy industrial sculpture usually stayed with stick though some also learned mig. Stick is best suited to heavier materials, say 1/4" and up though someone with a good bit of skill can weld thinner stuff 1/8" is usually the thinnest I recommend newer stick welders try to weld. Stick will let you make tools and various general projects, but isn't suitable fir thin work on average. Mig tended to be the generic sculpture process. It allows you to weld thinner materials or thicker stuff depending on the wire used and machine settings. 1/16" to 1" is relatively easy with mig. Learning curve is short and decent machines aren't that expensive to buy. Thinner stuff can be done with lots of skill or specialized equipment like pulsed mig. The atr students interested in art glass and jewelry usually wanted to do Oxy fuel, as well as those interested in working in copper. Serious students wanted to learn tig. Tig would allow them to do very small precise welds and weld on metals like stainless, bronze, copper and alum as well as steel. This takes the most time to learn and skill to do however. Up side is most tig machines will also allow you to stick weld as well as do tig. If you can you might think about looking at a dedicated tig machine if you can find one used for a decent price. I see some of the monster industrial tigs going as low as $400-900 fairly regularly and occasionally I've seen rebadged ones like older Aircos ( made by Miller) as low as $250 on very rare occasions. Down side is the huge size, weight, and power consumption. Some of those monsters won't even do low amp tig on much less than a 50 amp circuit. If you get an AC/DC tig, you can do alum as well as other metals. If it's DC only, you will be limited to stainless, steel and most other standard alloys except alum. Adding the AC option usually ups the price significantly. Most guys can learn just fine on a DC only tig and transition to AC later if they feel the need after learning the basics on DC. If you buy a DC capable stick machine, you can do basic scratch start tig simply by adding the tig torch and reg. You won't have as much control without a dedicated tig pedal to adjust your amps as you weld, but rigs like this are used daily in the field to produce xray quality welds. It's not really practical to try and do alum with anything other than a dedicated tig however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I welded for a lot of years in an apartment or rental house using a 50' 230v extension cord run off either the dryer or range outlet. I still have that 50' cord that I can use if need be to get the machine out to the middle of the drive way if needed. (DSW). Like DSW, I have a long extension cord (100 ft) that can be plugged into a dryer or range outlet. Now I have a 6KW generator and can go anywhere with it, but still use the ex cord to reach vehicles that I can't get into the shop.. One of the ancillary costs to a high amperage machine is getting a 230 plug where you need it. If you're renting, it's not even possible, but an extension cord will work. A Lincoln 225 suggests a 50 amp circuit, Driers are typically 30 amp at 230 volts, but that still allows 180 amp welds (arc voltage is much lower than line voltage) or more. An electric range is more apt to be sized for 50 amps. Your dad can probably help with fabricating the cord. O/A for general welding can be quite expensive - refills on the small bottles are pushing $100.00 for both botttles $60+ on the A and 30+ on the O last I got. Hourly elec costs are less than running your dryer or electric range and an hour of arc time is a lot of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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