Blacksmith for the Boy Scouts

[Ridgewayforge]

Hello all,

I wanted to share with you an exciting opportunity that I will have coming up.
Next summer there is a good chance that I will be able to begin teaching the Metalworking Merit Badge to a nearby Boy Scout Troop.
I am excited to have an opportunity to give back what I've learned from reading, personal instruction and I Forge Iron. Right now, I am in the preparing/planning stages of the class.
Becuase my smithy is rather limited, I am only going to be able to have two to three scouts working at a time. Also, I have realized that I have a lot of tools to make between now and then. I still need to make some punches of different sizes, a cutoff hardy, handled hot cut, bottom tools, top tools, slitters and drifts and maybe burn out a log to make some swages. I am still looking for hammers and tongs from garage sales and the like, but realize that I'm going to have to become proficient in tong making so I can have a good stock of them.

I figured that I would start them off with hammer control and making simple wall hooks, as that's what I was taught first. I think that combines several important elements of blacksmithing, between twisting, bending, tapering, scrolling and punching (if it is a wall hanger and not a hammer in item). I know that by teaching these skills I will really be refining my own skills as well, becuase teaching others not only imparts knowledge on them, but helps to solidify my own knowledge. It will be difficult, though, becuase my smithy is only set up for one, right now. But hopefully I will be able to locate some railroad track or chunks of steel for them to hammer on, so maybe I can have more than one scout hammering at a time. I figure my Champion 400 blower and forge will suffice for several scouts, and look forward to showing these young men the great art that has captured my imagination.

Has anyone hosted a class for them like this who would like to give me their advice? I greatly appreciate all wisdom I recieve that I can then pass on to the next generation of smiths.

Thanks for reading,
RidgewayForge

[John B]

Firstly decide what you are going to make, and what tools you will need to produce these items, (you can build on these as you progress, and get them to make their own tools as they go along)

Then decide how many you will be teaching in a group and you can tool up to suit. Four is a good number to start with

Consider making a couple more hearths up too, too many in a fire is not desirable,

Your forge blower should be adequate to feed more than one forge, get them used to shutting down the blast between heats by using slide valves, and you can nominate one at a time to crank the forge.

Put the word out and you may be surprised at the feedback you get , maybe even some tools/anvils.

Good luck with this worthwhile project.

[ThomasPowers]

Did I miss where you mention what type of forge you have? With a coal forge I generally like only *2* students, with a propane forge I have managed 6 at a time. (Adults you can pack in, kids you must WATCH!)

However I like to have only 2 students per anvil and them spaced far enough that you don't have issues with people moving hot iron through "humanly occupied spaces" so with the forge at 12 o'clock I will have an anvil at 3 and 9 and a vise at 6 for 4 folks. For 6 I prefer another anvil at 6 o'clock and a vise off to the side on the 3 and 9 sides, (2 vises).

Also are you teaching blacksmithing or teaching to the merit badge? I assume you have read over the merit badge many times and drafted a plan of how to get them from zero skills to passing.

I assume with the "no lone zone" rules you will have a scoutmaster assistant or two---can you train them before time? And they are providing the first aid kit too!

[Steve Sells]

depending on where you are having the class, I can bring 2 maybe 3 extra forges to use along with what you have.

[george m.]

I suggest that if you are short on tongs use visegrips. I didn't have any tongs when I started and used those. I still probably use them at least as often as tongs, particularly if I need a really tight grip for a process. It may be heretical but I think that the use of vice grips by beginners may be preferable to tongs if they are working short stock that they cannot hold in their hands. I know that this will probably cause postings of outrage that "real" smiths use tongs and students should not be exposed to anything else or that tongs are better than vicegrips because of X.

Grippingly,
George M.

[Maillemaker]

I've been in the same position.

My curriculum has been: a tempered center punch made from coil spring, a drive hook and a riveted candle holder.

I'm not sure how you're working this, but it is an awful lot of work to teach the entire badge at the forge in one go. The requirements that demonstrate soldering, work hardening and annealing can easily be done at another time, especially if you have a small anvil to bring with you.

I've found that I can teach terminology better in a classroom setting, as you will be able to address the entire class, instead of two or three at a time.

How old are the scouts you will be teaching? Some of the younger ones will not have the manual dexterity or strength to use a 3lb hammer. Also, the height of your anvil is most likely incorrect for some scouts. I would recommend having several stands for your anvil to compensate, rather than having the scout stand on a block of wood or a milk crate.

Be careful with how many students you have at a time. Not only for space issues, but it is extremely dangerous for anyone to be inattentive at the forge. In my experience, one scout at a time is optimal, two is acceptable, three is a hassle.

Also, go over basic rules,
- When in doubt, a piece of stock is hot. Always use tongs to handle stock.
- Proper tool usage. If you don't know what a tool is used for, don't use it until you ask.

Come up with a list of possible projects, and don't be afraid to let the scouts design their own. However, my rule was absolutely no weapons.

Shoot me a message if you would like more info

[Ridgewayforge]

Thank you all for your advice, you bring up some things I hadn't thought of.
My forge is a Champion Whirlwind Firepot (I have yet to put it into a table, that is in production as we speak.) I like the idea of diverting the air flow to a second hearth. I figure I could very easily fabricate one out of a 55 drum and some rebar for a fairly servicable forge.
I also hope that I can encourage them to make a lot of their own tooling. (I will of course let them leave it for other scouts if they choose to do so.)
I will be working to the Merit Badge, and keeping to its requirements.

With two hearths, I figure I can handle 2-3 scouts maximum. However, they will not start off at the forge. I plan to teach them the "book work" (i.e. what they're going to do, the cold work, safety, forging processes, tools) at a seperate meeting by coming to their troop's meeting and teaching that part first. Then, on several weekends I can take the boys two or tree at a time (with at least two adults there as supervision and for two-deep leadership) I will open the merit badge up to scouts 14 years or older, as I do not feel comfortable with any younger than that, at least the first time.

I can train the adults who will be helping me, (and I know several of the dads have blacksmithing experience as well, in one form or another).

[Maillemaker]

Excellent. By 14, most scouts will have the height, strength, and dexterity needed for forging. Also, thank you for playing by the rules and requiring other adults to be present.

[Ridgewayforge]

Even though sometimes I think those rules are a bit strict, I understand that I'm not going to be the one to break them. I think safety is important, so I like to have others around, not only for personal protection but in case of emergency too.

[Ted T]

I think what you are doing is a great thing.

But; make sure you protect yourself legally.
I am not an attorney, I have just have had some prior experience.
Based on my experience, I feel that it would be important for you to truly understand the liability issues that are possible.
Not just someone’s unfounded opinion.
I suggest that you check with your homeowners insurance.

I found out that the boy scouts insurance does not eliminate the right for third party recovery.

You may consider taking portable equipment over to a location of their choice to conduct the process as to reduce your liability.

Make sure you cover all safety issues such as Personal Safety Equipment. Set up your rules of conduct and safety, make sure all of the rules are understood, and then enforce your rules of conduct and safety.
Rules should include but not limited to wearing the proper safety equipment at all times, no horseplay, do not pick up or touch steel (Black HOT) without permission, and such as that.

Make sure you have an adult to assist you at all times.

The reason I would even respond to this topic is because #1. I care,
#2. I was an investigator for a living. I found that it is only takes a very, very small percent to mess things up for the majority.
So for that very small percent who do not listen, nor care, all of the above must be considered.

I wish you the best at what you are doing, but be fully informed!

[Ridgewayforge]

Ted, I will check on that. Thank you for that important point I was overlooking. You're right, it just takes one parent to make a fuss about a little burn and then the whole thing goes up in flames! (pun intended!)

With regards to PPE, would you suggest the wearing of gloves? I know it is a greatly contested point, becuase some people will claim that gloves make it safer while some claim it makes it more dangerous. I personally do not use gloves, becuase I found they impede my work and encourage sloppy habits. (becuase somehow my mind believes that with gloves I can touch hot steel...)
What would you advise?

[Ted T]

You bring up a very important issue.
That is because you are responsible to make a decision that takes some consideration and the exercise of wisdom on your part.
It seem as though “all of the kings horses and all of the kings men have discussed and argued the proper way to do many things here at I Forge Iron” and everyone feels their way is correct.

Sometime general consciences seems to be reached and then; “Of Course”, that reasoning seems to be overturned at a later date because someone argues more intensive and more often about how right they are. Thus, leaving the issue unresolved for the less experienced person to deal with.

So this is what I am suggesting, beings you ask!
YOU as a BLACKSMITH must make your own mind up about what is the best way for YOU to do something. Your training and knowledge must be put into operation. That is why they are asking a blacksmith to assist with the merit badge.

You do not want a Attorneys, Jurors, and or a Judge to tell you if you were right or wrong about when you should or should not wear gloves.

Knowledge is powerful
I suggest that you study the existing posts carefully about when, where, why, and what type of glove should or should not be worn.
Here are some, but not limited to the following issues with gloves.
1. Loose fitting gloves may allow hot steel to find its way into the glove.
2. Heat can melt the glove around your fingers.
3. Wearing gloves makes it easy for something to grab them.
4. If they are too tight, you cannot get it off in time to prevent damage.
5. You may lose the sensitivity required for the skill you are doing.
6. There are any more reasons.
One of the discussions can be found here: http://www.iforgeiro...gain-yet-again/

Analyze each process you will have the scouts perform.
I believe you will find that some operations may require just one glove on the tong holding hand, or on the chisel holding hand to protect from radiant heat, while others may not require any gloves to be used at all.
It will be up to you to decide.

If they use a wire wheel as opposed to a wire brush, be very cautious.
I consider the wire wheel as one of the most dangerous devices in my shop. It likes to grab and eat gloves or anything else it can get a hold of.

Your main strength is going to be to understand the process; and then determine the limitations of each boy for what you are requiring them to do, and then give good solid instructions and strong supervision of each operation. Situational awareness is essential.
I wish you the best!

[billyO]

Hello. Not sure if this info would help, but at our annual swap meet in Seattle, I met a few smiths who had started a merit badge the year before, and the NWBA donated some stuff. I bet you could contact them through the BSA to get info on how they organized their sessions/lessons.

[John McPherson]

Good advise so far. Just a note to add: consider going "unplugged" for this event. Why? Scout safety rules.

Under 14, NO POWER TOOLS, compressed air, gas or electric. No grinders, cordless drills, lathes: nothing, nada, zip. Only limited use by those under 18. This and many other topics are covered in the "Guide to Safe Scouting", see the tool chart near the end.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

Consider getting a Cole drill, post drill, or eggbeater types. Or else have a handy parent around to run the power tools. (Gilligan's island type muscle powered improvs are probably OK. Got any old bikes laying around?)

I get bags of cheap cotton jersey gloves (don't use steel wool or sandpaper without them), small plain canvas aprons from craft stores, as well as safety glasses to hand out.

PS: My OA Vigil name translates as "Iron Bender".

[ThomasPowers]

Cole drill would be great, post drill still has issues with gears and fingers and egg beaters are often harder to drill steel with when you get to larger holes needed.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Whitney punch would be an other good choice.

I make it a pre-requiterment that they have the book and have read it before they come for a session. and you need a hand out to give to them to outline proper clothes,shoes, proper fitting gloves and eye protection. I had a group show up with nothing no book (did not know one exsisted) and kids in flip flops, they were expecting to get the merit badge in one day. It is worth the time to go to one or two of their meeting and pass out the information and go through the requirements. That way they are not wasting you time when you are trying to meet the practil requirements of the badge. They are much more excited to get to the forging having some knowledge under there belt.

[gaylan veater]

Hi All,
These are my toughts on the Metal Working Merit Badge for the Boy Scouts of America. I have been teaching scouts at my place off and on for about 10years or so now. My experience has been great with this new generation coming up. This is how I have gone about teaching to the young men. I usually meet with their leaders and explain everything that will need to happen for them to complete this merit badge. I inform them that this can not be done in one meeting. I start by having handout of different things some of which is requirements from the book and make sure that they are done when we finish. I use a worksheet from BSA for the merit badge and use the things that pertain to the things for a blacksmith to teach and for the boys to do. We also go over the safety requirements and clothes they will have to wear. I had one boy show up with short pants and flipflops on I ask him if he remembered the safety clothes we talked about the week before he said he did but I sent him back home to change. I think the word got out cause I havent had any one else show up that way again. Once that is taken care of and as we start to learn about the forge and anvil etc I continually ask them question about parts of the anvil and other tools the blacksmith uses. I use a small flat piece of copper to show how to anneal it and also show them springback and hammer harding with that piece then each boy gets a piece to try for himself. Then I show them how they will draw a taper on a piece of round stock something with some carbon in it because it will become a center punch. I use ubolts from the newer Chevrolet truck as I work at a Chevrolet Dealer as a mechanic and when we install lift kits etc we have them left over. They seems to work really well range in size from 1/2'' to 3/4'' diameter. I straighten them out and cut off one side of threads that gives them a good handle so they do not need tongs at this point. After I do I demo of drawing a square taper. Then I let them try it watching very close so I can give instructions as needed but dont be to quick to correct them most of the time they will correct themselves. I explain during this that it took me some time to forge my first taper and dont worry about having to reheat 5 or 6 times. that seems to be the average for boys that for the most part have not ever picked up a hammer before. Once they have drawn the taper to a square I have them hand file the end on the diamond and It becomes a square center punch which is more visible for the blacksmith to see after his piece is heated up. Then I show them how to harden and temper back this new punch they have made. They all go home with a punch in hand and a piece of copper after the first session.
The next meeting I have them make the set of Easy Tongs by Sean Conner can be found on anvilfire. I have the boys work in pairs or with a adult so everyone has a partner during which each on will help hold one side of the tong so the other end can be worked on by the boy. Once the tongs are riveted together. That completes a riveted project and a twist but they will do more twisting later.
The tongs will take up another session.
On the final session they will make some s hooks and or flint steels and put a twist in the s hooks so more drawing a taper I give the 1/4'' square bar for the s hooks and a piece fo 1/4'' spring steel for the flint steel about 6'' to 8'' inches I use old garage door springs for the flint steels.
All of these things take care of the requirements for the merit badge. I am always asking questions to the boys during this of safety things and parts of the anvil and blacksmith tools.
I also have a release form signed by the parents I use the one that the Boy Scouts Use. I have never had a problem with any parent and I have never had a boy get hurt. I think the key to this is having good adult leaders that watch what is going on all the time and only work as many boys at the anvil or forge as can safely do so. I encourage the fathers to come if they desire and have had to teach fathers or leaders at a later time as they also becoming envolved.
As most blacksmiths will say there is many ways to get the same results. So this is only my way of teaching and I know it can be done in many many other ways. I hope this helps. I will be teaching another group of boys after the first of the year.
Have a great time teaching these young men as they seem to want to learn so much. This is only one way to give to the future.

My thoughts,
Gaylan

[Francis Trez Cole]

thats a good idea about the easy tongs they can go home look it up and then make them pluse it is practical.

[Ted T]

Gaylan, I think you put the cream on the pie with your imput.
You all have contributed to a topic that I think needed more attention .
Good on all of you!. I feel that I am better informed

[Ridgewayforge]

Thank you all for your input! This thread might be helpful for all those beginning to teach others. The class will be held in Central MD, and for now my plan is to make as many tools as possible and aquire as many anvils as possible. For me this will be a tough task, as my spending money is a bit thin. But, somehow, I'll manage if its meant to be. I know I won't have a complete set up for this upcoming summer, but I figure that its inagural class will be sort of guinea pigs to see what needs to be changed and improved. It should teach me a thing or two as well!

 

Hopefully teaching my friend how to blacksmith later in december will act as a sort of guide as to what I should teach and how. I plan to give the Boy Scouts some freedom with what to make, but also am going to compile a catalog of potential projects for them. I might let them make as much as they want, but if they go crazy I might have to ask for higher donations. We will see, so much is up in the air. I thank all of you for your input, really a fantastic amount of Wisdom I've been given by experienced members. Thanks!

~Rf

[HWHII]

Hi All,
These are my toughts on the Metal Working Merit Badge for the Boy Scouts of America. I have been teaching scouts at my place off and on for about 10years or so now. My experience has been great with this new generation coming up. This is how I have gone about teaching to the young men. I usually meet with their leaders and explain everything that will need to happen for them to complete this merit badge. I inform them that this can not be done in one meeting. I start by having handout of different things some of which is requirements from the book and make sure that they are done when we finish. I use a worksheet from BSA for the merit badge and use the things that pertain to the things for a blacksmith to teach and for the boys to do. We also go over the safety requirements and clothes they will have to wear. I had one boy show up with short pants and flipflops on I ask him if he remembered the safety clothes we talked about the week before he said he did but I sent him back home to change. I think the word got out cause I havent had any one else show up that way again. Once that is taken care of and as we start to learn about the forge and anvil etc I continually ask them question about parts of the anvil and other tools the blacksmith uses. I use a small flat piece of copper to show how to anneal it and also show them springback and hammer harding with that piece then each boy gets a piece to try for himself. Then I show them how they will draw a taper on a piece of round stock something with some carbon in it because it will become a center punch. I use ubolts from the newer Chevrolet truck as I work at a Chevrolet Dealer as a mechanic and when we install lift kits etc we have them left over. They seems to work really well range in size from 1/2'' to 3/4'' diameter. I straighten them out and cut off one side of threads that gives them a good handle so they do not need tongs at this point. After I do I demo of drawing a square taper. Then I let them try it watching very close so I can give instructions as needed but dont be to quick to correct them most of the time they will correct themselves. I explain during this that it took me some time to forge my first taper and dont worry about having to reheat 5 or 6 times. that seems to be the average for boys that for the most part have not ever picked up a hammer before. Once they have drawn the taper to a square I have them hand file the end on the diamond and It becomes a square center punch which is more visible for the blacksmith to see after his piece is heated up. Then I show them how to harden and temper back this new punch they have made. They all go home with a punch in hand and a piece of copper after the first session.
The next meeting I have them make the set of Easy Tongs by Sean Conner can be found on anvilfire. I have the boys work in pairs or with a adult so everyone has a partner during which each on will help hold one side of the tong so the other end can be worked on by the boy. Once the tongs are riveted together. That completes a riveted project and a twist but they will do more twisting later.
The tongs will take up another session.
On the final session they will make some s hooks and or flint steels and put a twist in the s hooks so more drawing a taper I give the 1/4'' square bar for the s hooks and a piece fo 1/4'' spring steel for the flint steel about 6'' to 8'' inches I use old garage door springs for the flint steels.
All of these things take care of the requirements for the merit badge. I am always asking questions to the boys during this of safety things and parts of the anvil and blacksmith tools.
I also have a release form signed by the parents I use the one that the Boy Scouts Use. I have never had a problem with any parent and I have never had a boy get hurt. I think the key to this is having good adult leaders that watch what is going on all the time and only work as many boys at the anvil or forge as can safely do so. I encourage the fathers to come if they desire and have had to teach fathers or leaders at a later time as they also becoming envolved.
As most blacksmiths will say there is many ways to get the same results. So this is only my way of teaching and I know it can be done in many many other ways. I hope this helps. I will be teaching another group of boys after the first of the year.
Have a great time teaching these young men as they seem to want to learn so much. This is only one way to give to the future.

My thoughts,
Gaylan

Gaylan, How many hours would you say it takes to complete the reguirements? How do you deal with a boy that does not have the hand eye cordination and can not keep pace with the class? Have you ever had a boy that you passed through even though he could just not get it or he got frustrated and quit?

[gaylan veater]

Hi Harold,
I would say that it takes about 3 sessions of about 2 and 1/2hrs of shop time. I like to work with about 4 boys at a time and I have 2 anvils set up for them only 1 boy working on each anvil at one time and the other 2 are watching or helping when the making of the tongs.
I like to meet with them one night before shop time to go over the safety things and metallurgy questions. Also go over clothing that they should wear.
I have had a few boys that start out a little slow and sometimes I have had to help them by holding the bottom of the hammer handle and with them holding the hammer just above my hand and guide them to hit metal in the right place. Usually once or twice of help like this they are off and going and do pretty good after that.
I will not pass any boy if he has not completed all the requirements they do not have to look like a pro has done them but I have been please at how well they do with only a small amount of time. I can see improvement each time they come. I usually have them come once a week for 3 weeks in row. I have done it before on one saturday with the safety and metallurgy question done before but it is a long day. These is usually done because of travel time being far away from my shop to their home.
I have never had any boys quit or get frustrated in fact I hear all the time from the leaders and Eagle commissioners that always ask the boys what their favorite merit badge was if they had took the metal working with the blacksmithing option it has always be their favorite.

[John McPherson]

Camp Grimes summer camp MB sessions were two hours a day, five days a week. That spreads out the muscle stress on the boys, but not the counselor if you are teaching multiple classes. I never had a problem getting one of the staff "floaters" to volunteer to be my assistant for the week. (Like Thomas P. says, if you want a real front row seat at a demo, assist!) Afternoons we did demos of blacksmithing, pewter and other traditional skills in the Frontier area.

 

Many of the other camps in the Carolinas that I have visited have added Blacksmith Shops since then; it is one of the most popular badges around.

 

I was the first full-time camp blacksmith at our council's camp in 2001, and I still occasionally have young men come up and thank me who took it way back then. You never know who will be influenced by the things you do for others.

[HWHII]

Hi Harold,
I would say that it takes about 3 sessions of about 2 and 1/2hrs of shop time. I like to work with about 4 boys at a time and I have 2 anvils set up for them only 1 boy working on each anvil at one time and the other 2 are watching or helping when the making of the tongs.
I like to meet with them one night before shop time to go over the safety things and metallurgy questions. Also go over clothing that they should wear.
I have had a few boys that start out a little slow and sometimes I have had to help them by holding the bottom of the hammer handle and with them holding the hammer just above my hand and guide them to hit metal in the right place. Usually once or twice of help like this they are off and going and do pretty good after that.
I will not pass any boy if he has not completed all the requirements they do not have to look like a pro has done them but I have been please at how well they do with only a small amount of time. I can see improvement each time they come. I usually have them come once a week for 3 weeks in row. I have done it before on one saturday with the safety and metallurgy question done before but it is a long day. These is usually done because of travel time being far away from my shop to their home.
I have never had any boys quit or get frustrated in fact I hear all the time from the leaders and Eagle commissioners that always ask the boys what their favorite merit badge was if they had took the metal working with the blacksmithing option it has always be their favorite.

   

Gayland, Thanks for your reply.