what causes an anvil to "Go Dead"

[poundhound]

hello,

this might have been addressed before in the fourms but I did not see it in a quick search.

I was looking at an anvil a guy was selling, but when I hit it with a hammer it did not ring, and there was no rebound.

what causes this to happen to an anvil?

can this happen to anvils I have? can it be prevented?


PoundHound

[Tom W]

What kind of anvil was it? A cast iron anvil has no ring, only a "thud". and almost no rebound.
Tom

[poundhound]

What kind of anvil was it? A cast iron anvil has no ring, only a "thud". and almost no rebound.
Tom

I don't know exactly the guy was selling it said it was off a ship here is a picture if it helps

[John McPherson]

It looks like it is set in concrete, that would kill the ring on a bell.

The stepped feet, angled near side with "church windows" and sharp cornered heel means that it is a high quality cast steel east German pattern anvil. If those are not bedded well, the ring is deafening. I have never seen or heard of an ASO in this pattern. Rebound test will tell you how hard or soft it is, in any case.

[pkrankow]

Does it "thunk" or make another solid sound? Bedded like that it will be quiet. Looks like a nice anvil. I would not worry about the lack of ring bedded like that if that was the only concern.

Phil

[Sweany]

looks like an Old world anvil

[knots]

Looks like an cast iron ASO to me. Look at how the anvil edges radius into the top. The stepped feet look like a cheap CI ASO I have seen advertised. That would explain the lack of rebound. Buyer Beware.

One thing he was probably right about though is that it probably came off of a ship. Perhaps in a container with a thousand or so others.

[pkrankow]

http://www.oldworldanvils.com/anvils/workhorse.html

If this is what it is, then real anvil.

Get a large ball bearing and rebound test it.

Phil

[poundhound]

http://www.oldworlda.../workhorse.html

If this is what it is, then real anvil.

Get a large ball bearing and rebound test it.

Phil

That is exactly it. there are the two fluted areas on the back side, what they are calling "Church Windows" . the guy said it was from the 1940s. there is an RBR (with the 2nd R being backwards) as a mark on it.

The one in the picture was the 280 lb size, but I bought a 336 lb size anvil from the guy since it had ring and rebound, it was not embedded in the concrete on the stand, it sat on top.

if these are recent prices then I did OK, I paid $1500 for the 336 lb size, with a very heavy steel and concrete stand, delivered. large anvils are somewhat hard to come by out here in California, prices seem to be bid up if one becomes available.


How do I do the rebound test, with ball bearing?

[781]

I have a Peter Wright that when you drop a ball bearing on it it barely rebounds and is difficult to work on as it doesnt put energy into the work from the bottom or at least I think so so I use a differrent anvil. It is the one I copied for my first Peter Wrong that was recently at the ABANA conference.

[ThomasPowers]

go to anvilfire.com, using the navigate anvilfire menu select 21st Century and then select Anvils testing rebound for a good description of the test and values for a number of anvils.

As mentioned: if it has a good steel face then it has lost it's temper in a fire. If it's cast iron you are out of luck.

Having lost it's temper *should* plummet the price as it's not a working anvil though there is a chance you could re-heat treat it and have a good anvil---think of it like two cars one perfect and one with massive hail damage to the body, yes you could repair the one but the asking price should be very low indeed!

Cast Iron, nothing you can do.

[pkrankow]

Take a measuring stick, and the ball bearing. Drop the bearing from a known height such as 10 inches. Record the height the bearing returns to. Anything over 50% is a "real" anvil, more return is better.

Anvilfire.com has more info, but do not permit deep linking. It is in the FAQ section under "testing anvil rebound"

Phil

[matei campan]

if I see right, it has JEB stamped on the face. I own an identical (not same wheight, just 32kg) anvil, a tipe which is very popular in former Austro Hungarian empire I think. here in Transilvanya that's how "the anvil" looks and I've seen several JEB stamped anvils already. the anvil must be a good quality one, as you can see is still in a very good shape.

[poundhound]

if I see right, it has JEB stamped on the face. I own an identical (not same wheight, just 32kg) anvil, a tipe which is very popular in former Austro Hungarian empire I think. here in Transilvanya that's how "the anvil" looks and I've seen several JEB stamped anvils already. the anvil must be a good quality one, as you can see is still in a very good shape.

I did not buy that one since it had no ring and no action when I hit it with a hammer. the guy said that was a 280 lb anvil.

I bought the 150kg or 330 lb one he had, it had ring and bounce when I hit with the hammer, I will do the ball bearing test when I get home. the stamp on the one I bought is RBR with the last R backwards. but they look about the same as in no dings in face, or horn.

poundhound

[knots]

Sounds like you got the real thing. Congratulations . If that is a 1940' German anvil you have a fine anvil indeed. So far as the ring is concerned, there are a lot of posts and almost as many opinions as to the best way to tame the anvils ring. After using mine in sand for years I finally settled on fabricated or forged Z clips. My anvils are mounted on wood stumps with a layer of 120 lb roofing sheet laid down between the anvil and stump acting as a gasket (multiple layers of lighter roofing will also work). The Z clips pull the anvil down so that there is complete and firm contact between the anvil and stump. That method made my rather loud PW go thunk. This method has also worked on steel stands. Happy Forging.

[knots]

Have a look at this Czech import. The"Blacksmith" anvil looks kinda familiar. They also have Peddinghaus and Habberman patterns. The specifications say manganese iron but the analysis indicates steel . Anybody know anything about Branco and these anvils ? These appear to rise above the standard of ASO's but quality is otherwise unknown to me.


http://www.branco.cz/anvils.htm#Packing%20of%20Anvils

[poundhound]

So, back to the original question

What causes an anvil to loose its rebound, go dead.

So far being in a fire (basially whole anvil is annealed) is the only answer I heard.

So if I purchase an anvil and it has action, I don't have to worry that it will become dead with use? Not age related?

PoundHound

[Steve Sells]

no, its safe to use it as often as you wish, one does not wear out the rebound.

[ciladog]

I can’t believe this thread. Beat the XXXXXX out of it and stop worrying about if your hammer bounces back and hits you in the face. If you want a bell, buy a bell.

OK, you want a reason that your anvil has lost its rebound? Well here it is. Your anvil is over 40 years old and at that age it loses 10% of its testosterone each year. So I suggest that you buy those testosterone replacement pills and grind them up and put them down the hardy hole a few times a week and maybe, just maybe, the anvil will start to rebound again.

[knots]

If it is a plated anvil and the plate delaminates the rebound can be affected. Plate de-laminations are not common but do occur. Is your anvil plated or cast ? It looks to be cast. In any event If good now it is likely to stay that way.

[poundhound]

I can’t believe this thread. Beat the XXXXXXXX out of it and stop worrying about if your hammer bounces back and hits you in the face. If you want a bell, buy a bell.

OK, you want a reason that your anvil has lost its rebound? Well here it is. Your anvil is over 40 years old and at that age it loses 10% of its testosterone each year. So I suggest that you buy those testosterone replacement pills and grind them up and put them down the hardy hole a few times a week and maybe, just maybe, the anvil will start to rebound again.

I did not purchase the anvil without the rebound. I bought the one with the rebound/action.

There are test to do for rebound (ball bearing test) so at least some feel it is important and worth checking, from what I know about it, it makes the work done on an anvil more efficent and lessens fatigue.

I was just a curious about why the loss of action or rebound happens, in hopes of avoiding it by doing some thing that could be avoided.

Pound Hound

thanks to those who gave constructive answers to the question

[john_zxz]

@Knots
I own a 50kgs czech anvil from branco (purchased from a Canadian dealer) and it is great quality IMHO. I missed some blows with a hardened hammer and it did not dent. Nice rebound too. I put it in concrete like the photo at the beginning of the topic because it rang like a chuch bell. Even though it has loosen up with time and I had to put a magnet on the side. The curves in the legs are very handy, they act as a swage and the radius in the front is to prevent chipping from sledge hammering. I did some hardy tools in the hardy hole and it did not break. So far I'm very satisfied with it.

Btw, the anvil in the picture, Poundhound, is beautiful. The heel is thinner than nowadays east european anvils and the feets have more graceful lines. Thanks for posting.

[ciladog]

I did not purchase the anvil without the rebound. I bought the one with the rebound/action.

There are test to do for rebound (ball bearing test) so at least some feel it is important and worth checking, from what I know about it, it makes the work done on an anvil more efficent and lessens fatigue.

I was just a curious about why the loss of action or rebound happens, in hopes of avoiding it by doing some thing that could be avoided.

Pound Hound

thanks to those who gave constructive answers to the question

I guess you didn’t like my tongue -in-check answer. Well, I don’t think for one instant that there is anything you could have done to that anvil to remove the rebound if it was there to begin with. Others may want to pontificate on the matter but it is a block of Iron (or iron and steel) to be hammered on.

Draw a happy face on it and point it to magnetic north and see if the rebound comes back.

Give me a break. Just use the darn thing and stop with the anvil worship.