AJAX Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 So I got this old powr-Kraft 230 arc welder, it was never mine originally but I just got it and was trying it out the other day and at first it was just really harwell strike a weld with, and then when I finally did manage to get a bead going, I was surprised to see that after a while the the weld just broke right in half. I was only doing alittle butt weld. Not sure what happened, I know the rod sticking wasn't my fault because I have plenty of experience in welding. Some of the people I talked to said that it might be because I didn't get enough power but I know that My outlet isnt the problem. I tried turning the amps way past what the setting should be (I was using 7018) after my first few attempts. Anyways, I was just hopping some of you guys could help me figure it out and maybe offer a suggestion as to how I can fix my problem. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 looks to me like no penetration. also are you welding mild? i don't believe it has a droped leg,but if you open her up be sure to UNPLUG IT :D ! but seriously if you open it up check the contacts,cooling fan and vents, leads(tightness and maybe pull off and shine em up) and all screws from plug in to stinger/ground clamp, also ac/dc setting...i'm just throwing this out there, i'm certeanly not trying to berate yout knowledge atall, but some times ya can't see the forest for the trees, good luck jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 It doesn't look like you have enough penetration. Also, the unit maybe an AC and not a DC type of welder. 7018 rod may perform better with a DC unit. You didn't actually mention the settings you used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 AC Current will give an erratic arc. There is rod that works better on AC, 7018-AC, 6011 also works good on AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Running too hot and too fast to allow the arc to 'dig'? Bead profile looks OK, just no penetration. Edge prep & joint configuration? Vee out the groove and leave a gap equal to or slightly less than the thickness of the rod. (Zero gap equals zero penetration.) Dirty metal? 7018 needs clean, dry metal. 6010 is more forgiving of rust and dirt, and is a fast freeze rod used for open gap root passes, before the 7018 hot and cover passes. Cold metal? To do cladding or a seal weld on base metal of that thickness, I would recommend a preheat to 300F. And last but not least: new, dry rod. 7018 requires hot, dry storage (250-350F), or it picks up moisture from the air in a few hours that leads to cracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 A pretty typical result for AC 7018 and lack of penatration. I agree with Clinton and his suggestions. Did it crack on its own or while you were chipping the slag off? If you had a stress riser from the butt weld,or crator crack, hitting it would cause the crack to run out. Try running a T fillet or a lap fillet weld on one side and braking it and see if you get a better result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJAX Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 A pretty typical result for AC 7018 and lack of penatration. I agree with Clinton and his suggestions. Did it crack on its own or while you were chipping the slag off? If you had a stress riser from the butt weld,or crator crack, hitting it would cause the crack to run out. Try running a T fillet or a lap fillet weld on one side and braking it and see if you get a better result. alright i'll try that. The weld did crack on its own about 10 minutes after i finished welding, what kind of rod do you think i should use for an AC welder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I like 6013 with an AC welder. It will weld dirty and rusty steel. I'm no expert, but I have used hundreds of pounds of rod with an AC arc welder (the first 25 years of experience was using a Wards welder like you showed a picture of in this thread). I have never had a weld fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJAX Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 I like 6013 with an AC welder. It will weld dirty and rusty steel. I'm no expert, but I have used hundreds of pounds of rod with an AC arc welder (the first 25 years of experience was using a Wards welder like you showed a picture of in this thread). I have never had a weld fail. alright, i'll try 6013, can i still have 100% Duty cycle if i use that rod? i'd like to have full duty cycle if possible. oh, and did you ever clean your welder? if you did, how? oh, and what amperage should i use with 6013?, and should i run it on low or high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I am not a big fan of AC welding. It has its purpose for inexpesive welding. I like 6011 and 7018AC for welding rods. Regular 7018 will run AC but if you can find 7018AC rods they are formulated a little differently to run smoother. It will also give you stronger welds than any of the 60 series rods. All AC welding can be a little tricky when welding out of postion. I have been in situations welding heavy AR500 plate which is very high carbon, very magnetic which can cause severe arc blow and hard to maintain a arc. AC 7018 was the only way to get the job done. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 the only thing not mentioned is setting the gap between the steal with the size rod you are useing ...IE - rod size 3/32 gap 3/32 tack it and weld it . every one else has covered the other info . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 HW- is right on with his advise here. I would choose 6011 over 6013. The duty cycle of your machine will depend on the diameter of rod and type of rod. 7018 needs more amperage to run properly, so you may want to choose a smaller dia. rod 3/32 inch would be good. With that welder 1/8 inch 6011 rod should be fine. You can easily check the recommended settings for any electrode by going to the manufacturers web site. I like the Lincoln Electric site it has good info on all their products, it is easy to navigate and find what you need. It is not likely that you will ever reach the duty cycle on the welder as you will be letting it rest when you have to replace the rod. The duty cycle is based on continuous welding, so unless you have a 4 foot welding rod the machine will be resting and cooling down every time you stop welding. As far as cleaning a welder it is good practice to blow them out with air, I always do this when I buy a used welder. Remove the sheet metal and blow it out with compressed air. Try not to spin the fan with the air, hold it when blowing air in that area. Depending on how much airborne matter there is in your shop, clean on a needed schedule. Once a year should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJAX Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 well i tried again with 6011, and it seemed to weld slightly better, but the the weld broke again right down the middle. let me know if you want to see a picture, but i think i might just recycle this old thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 In the first response that Jimmy posted he did ask you what kind of steel you are welding on. Are you sure that is mild steel? Also there was a suggestion by HW to do a "T joint fillet" or "Lap joint" and do a break test on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 sounds like you are welding on Cast steel , Cast iron , or Pot metal , show a photo of the weld and face of it where it broke . please Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJAX Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 ill get some pictures soon. right now my camera is disagreeing with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Yep......what's the parent material, size, prep, size and type of rod, amps, . Tool steels and the like or high chrome 43xx, have the tendency to have a different cooling rates to the rod type, or partially blend with it to embrittle the bead, and crack with the differential cooling. Never seen it so uniform a crack though, try ripping more heat into it, and slow the cooling, with oxy. Some steels, you can't weld with stick alone, ive done some armour plating that just wouldnt play the game, only oxy or tig with the right tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 To quote John Mc: Edge prep & joint configuration? Vee out the groove and leave a gap equal to or slightly less than the thickness of the rod. (Zero gap equals zero penetration.) Number 1 Your rod may be old yes. Number 2 I would get some 1/4x1 bar stock about 6 inches long (2 pieces). Set these up flat on the table, leaving a gap of a quarter (thats a 25 cent piece) just for instance. Tack the ends. Tack one end to the table leaving the rest out in the air. I am a fan of 7014 but if you have 6011 this is fine (1/8"). Give 85-90 amps a try. Start on the outside and weld towards the table (of course, this means your arm is anchored on the table and pull towards the table). If you desire, flip it over and grind the root on the backside. Weld from that side as well. Put this whole thing in the vise and try to bend it and break the weld. I might add that just because the steel is new it still may stink (manuralloy) but at least you THINK it is mild and gives you a fair chance. This will give you a cheap fast way to know whats up with your welder. Your current test material may indeed be suspect. I see you have a low and a high side on the welder. Experiment with both and different sizes of rod. Make sure the connections on the leads are good and that your ground cable is connected well. I have a welder bought new in 1946. 9 carbon plates in a cage inside. Has a cam on the amperage adjustment used to squeeze these plates together to raise the amps. It was my Great Uncles. I bought it at his sale. Pulled the cover and used an excavator (lol) to get all the mud daubers and debris out. Re-bolted the connections. NO FAN. Good cables and leads. It still is a treat to use but it is short arc for sure and not a friend of anything but 6011 or 7014 (1/8" on one setting). this machine built countless equipment and repaired countless others in its life before me. I should put it in the museum. My modern (1976) Monkey Wards (ac/dc) stick welder works exceptionally well when I need it. I normally use the MIG or acetylene. Good luck on your project. Old tools rock when you live within their boundries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Since more experianced welders than I have already mentioned the basics' I suggest try a dif metal for a test weld and see what happens, so see if its the metal or the welder you just got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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