iron quake Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I’m about to start making tooling, for the 100 lb LG hammer, I just rebuilt and put a brake on. Thanks to Sid at LG, Peacock, and McBruce by the way for your help in this endeavor. So my question is this; I’m going to make most of the tooling; swage blocks, fullers, v blocks and the like, either with spring arms or side bars to attach to the bottom die holding fixture I just machined. Most of the tools will be made of 4140 and sent out for professional heat treating, in the mid 40 RC range. I’ll try to harden and temper some of the simple, smaller tools myself, in quenching oil or canola. So, can I weld the mild steel spring arms or attachment bars on after heat treatment or should they be attached first? I’m not so much worried about breaking tools and having to remake or repair them, as having them fail and come shooting out and killing me BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Most of the tool steel clapper dies I have came from an old shop and are forged from one piece. Also the ones I have made from mild steel with a welded arm tend to break and have to be repaired. Maybe you could have a mechanical connection (drill and tap the die before heat treat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I weld spring arms to heat treated dies and rarely have had any failures at the weld. You must use 7018 at a minimum for this, better yet get some 308 stainless rod or some other ss rods....I always weld pre treated dies and drawing temper hasn't been an issue but I'm careful not to do multipule passes one after another....let it cool in between passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I like dual shield 7100 Ultra mig wire for things like this, pre heat is a must and normalize the entire assembly in the forge after welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 We find that handles will normally crack in the heat affected zone on the mild steel side of the arrangement, not on the tool side of the setup. If you want to make a mechanical joint the old timers used to drill a hole in the tool before HT, choose a handle rod size slightly smaller than the hole they had drilled, upsett the ends of the handles to a flare shape and of a dia to fit into their drilled holes, After HT insert the upsett handles heat up around the hole edge with an Oxy torch and peen/caulk the edges of the holes onto the handles using a flat ended punch. The joint may become loose after a while but it just needs repeening, or you can leave it loose, it will not affect the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.pierson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Forgemaster, Thanks!! I have been reading Lillico's Blacksmith's Manual Illustrated and it shows the same thing in plate 26. I have read that multiple times and just didn't get it until I read your post. Brian Pierson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have some photos to illustrate, these are of some single handle pin swages that are fairly old, (ie I reckon that they predate me, and probably everyone else on this forum) Sorry but they are a couple of meg but that is just what my phone put them at. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowpoke Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 All you need to do is tack weld the 4140 to the spring handle, then preheat to 400deg. or more(I like a dull red), then mig weld, air cool then deliver to the heat treat plant. Just finish over 500 tools with 570lbs. made from 4140. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Forged up some new swages today, just trying to decide what style of handles to put on them, flat bar or round bar, or maybe pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 no wonder you have a human forklift phil..... how the hell do you get that up?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 no wonder you have a human forklift phil..... how the hell do you get that up?! Hoy! this is a familly site--- that is for veiwing not making :D :D :D ! @Phil--- looks like you don't take prisoners mate! B) B) Awsome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The human forklift has left mid last year to go underground drilling in the mines, that is Jay our 2nd year app, he is not yet a human forklift. These are swages for our press, they will not have handles but will be attached to the top and bottom blocks, just about to go grinding them up this morning, put the radius on and generally clean them up, they are 4340 so we will not be going to HT, just leave them as normalised. We just held the handles there to see what response we would get from IFI. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 thought it were something like that :) what size press are they under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I don't heat treat my dies. Some are made from A36, some are made from 4140. Don't have problems with them, but do small runs. I have only done about 6,000 nails with 2 different headers and top tools, no significant wear on those. Other items are probably not much over 100 parts for some under 1,000 for others. Again no significant wear. I do make a point of keeping the die or tool cool, sometimes to the point of having a bucket of water next to the hammer that I drop the tool into between heats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.