Bigred1o1 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 hi i recently had some one that i had made some railings for come by and drop off about 100 rr spikes that his son picked up while doing some work for the railroad they thought of me and dropped them off as a thankyou long story short dose anyone know of a listing of what the different markings on the heads of the spikes mean some of these have a H, hc or a few 2 and three lines across the tip of the head i did a bit of a search on the the good old google and here on ifi and i had no luck coming up with a list of whats what and i could have sworn i had seen mention of one on here anyways thanks for all those hunks of knowledge you will but hurling this way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 NO matter what you heard or read there are no high carbon RR spikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 yeah i was afrade of that i have a father that would really like a rr knife but i might have to cheat and see about forging a spike out of some spring steel and then forging it down into a knife i have no idea why he is stuck on the idea but when a man makes a request for his 65th birthday you got to at least give it a shot (spellcheck is just not working for me right now so sorry if this makes your eyes bleed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/7484-what-typegrade-steel-are-rr-spikes-and-tie-plates-produced/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have made knives from RR spikes , but I steel a 1095 bit to the cutting edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 good idea steve i really had not thought of doing that some times the simple solutions are the best thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 NO matter what you heard or read there are no high carbon RR spikes well i beg to differ... the company Gerdau Ameristeel makes rr spikes and lists them in theyre material data safety sheets as having bolth hi carbon and mid carbon and lists the high carbon as having .9 % carbon content . i have worked these spikes and they do harden i dont own a rockwell hardness tester so can not give numbers .These are new spikes and i am treating them as 1095 . not helpful in identifying used ones but if a person wants to buy new.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 can you scan the material data safety sheets or show a link to it. I googled the company and it said they sell differrent spikes but doesnt list the carbon I also googled anvil fire and one refrense said spikes grade 1 were a min of .12 C and HC were a min of .3. I have seen spikes that had a H and another letter other than C what does that make them other than a company identifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 i have a copied data sheet from the company .. it is too poor to make a copy of . it isnt the same as what is on the websight now . it is from a batch of spikes purchaced by a friend from tuson . he had people say the same things so he brought a copy of the safety data sheet with him to show. i know that when it is forged it acts like a high cabon steel . also did the harden and break test it broke with defenite grain structure (it was defenitely HARD) now i dont think all rr spikes are high carbon ... but i do think there are some that for one reason or another are hardenable . just to prove my point i will forge one out to 3/16 or so harden it in water break it and take a picture . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What I have: American Railway Engineering Association's Specifications for Soft-Steel Track Spikes. Original document, 1926, revised last in 1968 Page 5-2-1. "A low carbon track spike will not contain greater than 0.12% carbon nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-2 Section 11. Marking. A letter or brand indicating the manufacturer shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added. Page 5-2-3: Specifications for high carbon steel track spikes 1968. Carbon not greater than 0.30%, nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-4. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 120 degrees around a pin, the diameter of which is not greater than the thickness of the spike without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-5 Section 11. Marking: A letter or brand indicating manufacturer and also the letters "HC" indicating high carbon, shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 thanks for all the feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ok here is a picture of the rr spike after forging out under power hammer heated to beyond magnetic (cherry red) then quenched in my beeswax and crisco mix . set over edge of anvil and hit with hammer as you can see this is hard. this spike is new and is not from the 60s i do not know when or why they made these but they are high carbon . a mild steel treated the same way will bend and not break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I purchase brand new spikes by the keg locally. They are stamped HC, and I can testify that they get tuff, but do not in any way get "Hard". I would say they forge about like a C-1030 steel. I have forged something over 300 garden trowles from RR spikes, and most from found and bought from all over spikes, all stamped HC, and not one forged like a C-1095. Perhaps the company mentioned above decided to answer the need for a real high carbon spike to be sold to knife makers. Mine were all from or intended as line spikes in RR service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans138 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 i have a bunch of the H C stamped ones and i did a spark test compared to at coil spring, and i could not tell a diff at all between the two, but i know its not fool proof method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 i have made some spike knifes, all marked whc on the head the w is where it was made and the hc is for high carbon. to my understanding the carbon content can be anywhere from .3 to .8 give or take. the hc spikes are for use at switch points and on curves where they need the hardness and strength for movement. no they don't make a $400 dollar razor sharp high end knife, but they are fun to do. they will hold an edge but will need to be resharped more than a quality knife. but they are not ment to be a high quality knife. they are ment to be functional but because of the unknowing of carbon content they are more display knifes. by the way did i mention that they are FUN to make. there is also a market for collectors of knifes and of railroad spike knifes. a lot of smithes make tomahawks out of them. as for hardining and tempering i water quench then draw temper. works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Just remember that increased carbon content also means increased brittleness---something I do not believe RRs want on curves or switchpoints! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans138 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Just remember that increased carbon content also means increased brittleness---something I do not believe RRs want on curves or switchpoints! but doesn't brittleness depend on how its tempered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes and no spikes tempered to the same hardness will have different Charpy test results depending on carbon content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 also even tho there are new RR spike made of 1095, these are most likely made for people like US, not any RR I know of, past or present, read the RR spec's again, why do people forget its just a large nail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Steve Sells hit that nail on the head! ( Sorry Steve for the pun) The HC spikes are used on Main line tracks in our area per the RR contractor I buy from. He does work to the extent he has several Rail Car loads of new spikes at a time and only buys HC. I have never seen any evidence of anything in a spike that indicates other than the AAR spec material. A nail is a nail is a nail. But they are indeed fun to work, and make great tough steel items, but not very hard items. I make trowels for gardening, and of the 350+ I have made and I gaurantee them not to bend or break in my lifetime. I have not got one back yet. They are as forged condition. ThomasP, Charpy V-notch is a toughness test, and heat treat condition can definetly affect that, but the cold brittle steels can be "as forged" and brittle at temps as warm as mid 30's F We heat treated C-1023 to affect charpy V-notch strenght for valves and fitting going into A-350 Lf2 service, that is -40F service for say the Noth slope. It was more of a normalize type treatment than a hardening. Most hardened steels fare poorly at -40F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Good point about temperature effects! Charpy testing was one of the fun labs in my MatSci class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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