joshua.M Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 After some long talks with my parents and LOTS of reading, I have decided to sit down and plan for my shop and what I need/want to buy, when i want to buy it, and how nuch i should expect to pay. I have been recearching pros and cons of differant types of power hammers, and I have think settled on an air hammer. I would like to get an anyang 33, because the power requirements are easy, it is versitile, controllable, and not too big, because i currently am in a space saving mode. i would like to hear arguments of air vs mechanical hammers to make sure i have chosen the righ hammer. so far, the plan is: #1. clean up the shop and get rid of things that i dont need #2. make tools (fullers swages cutoffs that kind of thing) #3. Save money to put walls up (frame walls and put tin on) #4. save money to insulate and put plywood (or somthing else) on the inside #5. pour concrete floor #5. power hammer #6. more tooling what do you think? of my plan? the hammers? what should i expect to pay for an anyang? i will most likley be looking for used as my first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 "A" plan is better than no plan...cost aside, an air hammer is likely better than a mechanical hammer. However, unless you are in a position to benefit sales wise from production forging, until you have enough money saved to start throwing it away, you don't "need" a power hammer. It is a luxury as all you can do as a blacksmith you can do by hand. Build your shop (50% larger than you thought) then make your tools and stuff.....at the end of that then look for a power hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 "A" plan is better than no plan...cost aside, an air hammer is likely better than a mechanical hammer. However, unless you are in a position to benefit sales wise from production forging, until you have enough money saved to start throwing it away, you don't "need" a power hammer. It is a luxury as all you can do as a blacksmith you can do by hand. Build your shop (50% larger than you thought) then make your tools and stuff.....at the end of that then look for a power hammer. first off... thanks for the advice, i am not (at this point) in that position, my plan is to do all those things in steps being funded by blacksmithing and part time jobs, the power hammer step i a while off, i am going to be doing these steps over he next 6 or 7 years. i am mostly just gathering information about how much i will need to save to do each step, i am stuck on the power hammer though because of my inexperience in that topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 then save everything you can...in a few years look to spend $3,000 - $10,000 on an air hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrjohnson Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Joshua. I would suggest that you look at all of your options when it comes to power hammers. My first hammer was a little giant 50. After several years of blacksmithing, I purchased an Anyang 33 used from a blacksmith in Houston. Over the years, I became a real fan of the hammer and eventually, became the North America distributor for Anyang. The following link gives an overview of how the hammer works and at the end, shows a 55 lb in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZP8Bhv8rcY Before you buy, if possible, I would run the hammers. If you ever get close to Texas, you are welcome to visit my shop where you can test run the 33, 55, 88, and 165 lb Anyangs. Also, coming soon, I will be stocking 120 lb Anyang hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Joshua, are you an OABA member yet? You should try and get out to some meetings. I had been blacksmithing about 6-7 years before joining and I learned a lot the first meeting I went to, You may find someone local to you who will help you out. If you can make it to a couple of meetings you may find someone near you who you may be able to carpool with to meetings. Post on the OABA forum here a week before the next meeting and you may find a drive that way. Offer to help with gas or at least buy your driver a coffee. Several of the members who host meetings have power hammers and you can see for yourself the differences. There is talk of Brian Brazeel coming up here next summer, you may find working with a striker is more your speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Joshua, are you an OABA member yet? You should try and get out to some meetings. I had been blacksmithing about 6-7 years before joining and I learned a lot the first meeting I went to, You may find someone local to you who will help you out. If you can make it to a couple of meetings you may find someone near you who you may be able to carpool with to meetings. Post on the OABA forum here a week before the next meeting and you may find a drive that way. Offer to help with gas or at least buy your driver a coffee. Several of the members who host meetings have power hammers and you can see for yourself the differences. There is talk of Brian Brazeel coming up here next summer, you may find working with a striker is more your speed. yes mr.newman, i am a member of the oaba (in my first year as a member) i have been wanting to get out to the metings i may be going to the one im milton, if i can get my parents to drive me, i like your suggestion of carpooling, thanks for the advice... i heard about the posibility of mr.brazeal coming up, in the newsletter classifides there was mention of that if i recall correctly. i just picked up a cross pein sledge to use but i think i should learn how to strike before i expect somone to strike for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Joshua. I would suggest that you look at all of your options when it comes to power hammers. My first hammer was a little giant 50. After several years of blacksmithing, I purchased an Anyang 33 used from a blacksmith in Houston. Over the years, I became a real fan of the hammer and eventually, became the North America distributor for Anyang. The following link gives an overview of how the hammer works and at the end, shows a 55 lb in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZP8Bhv8rcY Before you buy, if possible, I would run the hammers. If you ever get close to Texas, you are welcome to visit my shop where you can test run the 33, 55, 88, and 165 lb Anyangs. Also, coming soon, I will be stocking 120 lb Anyang hammers. i would love to go see your shop, i was on your website earlier this week while i was researching differant hammers and it is a velly well configured site. when i told my dad that the two suppliers close to us were in texas and british colombia he said "well texas is closer and i could go find some nice stuff to bring home there" (he trains horses). But the power hammer wont be coming for another 6 or 7 years possibly. I am sure one day i will take you up on your offer. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Complete setup??? What's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 its a good plan . I am 17 years in and about to complete what is probably phaze 3 of my version of a workshop..... I would advise getting any power hammer asap as they are instant money makers and save your arms and shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm 20 years in now and would second Owen's suggestion...do what you can afford, but keep in mind saving your body. I am cleaning the shop now and moving things into a more efficient configuration...I am very pleased to have a concrete floor, anything that can be on wheels is, several good pry-bars and a hoist. Whatever tools you get be sure to make then run soon..I have a corner filled with "I'll get to that" tooling..some are 6 years old. A power hammer (any size) or 24 ton or better hydraulic press moving at .5" second or more are good tools. You will figure out ways to use the tools you have..and make them do things they can not. In several ways I wish I had remained smaller in tool sizes and work, but I am a tool whore and would not mind having this hammer: All things being equal (and they never are) I would rather have a smaller air hammer than a larger mechanical...it is more versatile. The next step would be to get a hydraulic press. I would move #5 to #2....and you can put in a concrete floor later and since you planned a head and made the hammer foundation about level with what the concrete floor will be you have no issues later. My old foundation in the first shop is still there..three foot of concrete for the hammer with a gravel floor...never got around to it. Ric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Buy the best tools you can as soon as you can, it pays off. I have never wished I had not bought that new welder, power hammer, Induction heater Etc and spent the money instead on beer and going out to dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Buy your first hammer and use it to pay for the one you *want*. Over the last 30 years I've owned 4 triphammers so far: 25# LG for $75, 50# Unknown make for $260 under power, Champion #1 for $750---under power, and a Champion #1 for $600 needs some TLC. A powerhammer can speed up your work; allow you to do things you couldn't even dream about by hand and save a lot of RSI issues. I'd advise you to work toward finding and getting a mechanical fast and saving for the nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormcrow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Consider a junkyard hammer. With adequate fabrication skills, you can build it yourself for the cost of materials. Even a small one will speed things along. I am a big fan of the guided helve hammers such as the Appalachian "Rusty"-style hammers. Mine's a hundred pound ram, but they can easily be scaled between 15 and 100 pounds. Or take one step down in complexity and build a helve hammer. I love Grant's Original Junkyard Hammer, though I would go a different route to get the eccentric: The guided helve gives a great deal of flexibility, though. I'd recommend the use of a tire clutch with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Johusa Look at an in line treadle hammer to start with. Then the key is the tooling, make the tooling able to fit your power hammer. A tire hammer is a good choice. David Robertsons is in your area and he has plans for an air hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As far as shops go: Some of the best shops have dirt floors. Concrete is a back killer. Are you aware you are a little less than an hour away from some GREAT blacksmiths? David Thompson in Eugene. Bear,Jack Frost both in Eugene. I'm not a great or even a good blacksmith but you are welcome to come over to Deadwood Or. and play in my shop. I have a LG 25#.. Alan Flashing down in Oakland Oregon has a wonderful shop. You can Google Alan's site,Flashing Forge,and see his stuff.Alan's large shop has a dirt floor except in a few spots where he poured some concrete pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There are a couple of OABA members very close to you Joshua. Les Fairhust is in Campbellford and I beleive he has built one of David Robertson's hammers. Do what you can to make it to Milton this February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Get a power hammer, any power hammer first, it will save your body for the long haul. I had a 25#LG for years and it sure helps speed things along over doing it all by hand. Yes, I had a right arm that put most all men to shame but it also got most all wore out too. No use doing tha when you can have a machine do that for you. Build a "Rusty" or some other hammer and make some money with then up grade when you have the money for better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Johnny Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Just having a plan you have made a good start, work on developing your skills and decide what kind of smithing you want to do and that will help decide what the next priority should be , good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 There are a couple of OABA members very close to you Joshua. Les Fairhust is in Campbellford and I beleive he has built one of David Robertson's hammers. Do what you can to make it to Milton this February. are you sure that he is in campbellford? i found him on the OABA membership list and i cant remember where it said je was, but it was not campbellford??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Revised list: 1. Clean shop (working on it) 2. Make tools 3. Frame and tin (getting quote) 4. Power hammer (mechanical) + foundation 5. Tooling 6. Insulate + plywood 7. Brick and sand floor 8. Hydraulic press 9. Air hammer 10. FUN! uhhh nooo i mean work ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Your list is too long! Make a list no more than three items long. I personally cannot handle "to do" lists more than two items long. Start with things that will make it possible for you to work (fire, basic tools, protection from elements, floor, etc.). Then tackle problems as they arise. Tackle them with intent, making or buying quality tooling is money and/or time well spent and is part of the job. You will never be "all set to go". Being "all set" is not the point. Doing the work and trying to understand what it means to be a craftsman is the point. Oh, I should add, lest I make a hypocrite of myself, that if you want to do this professionally, making money is the point, too. The most important point, and an art in itself. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 dan i cant handle not having a list! it helps me plan and see what i am going to do before i do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrandow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 There are a couple of OABA members very close to you Joshua... Alan Easton, John Heffron and David Mitchell are also in that area, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 May I make one humble suggestion Dont wait too long on one of those cheaper than dirt power hammers....They are more rare than hens teeth and nearly as useless when you find them..Even a $1000 LG these days will need a decent ammount of work...We looked for over 5 years, in five years and three states the cheapest we found was $1500 for a #25 LG that needed another $1000 worth of work... Waiting those 5 years cost us thousands of dollars in large orders Lisa couldent fill by hand..Finally about 6 months or so ago we bit the bullett and paid $3800 for a lovely #50 Lg with extra dies and tools..A big wooden base, a brake and very nice shield.. In these 6 months it has already paid for itself twice..If you plan on making real money with a shop a good hammer is crucial...We found out that the hard way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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