Patrick Walley Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Okay so im a newbie at anvil selection. I've worked on anvils owned by others but never owned my own. so first off, what effect does weight have on an anvil? whats the advantage of a big or small anvil? some extra input is I forge blades and decorative pieces as well as random tools and accessories. i seldom work anything thicker than 3/8" or longer than 14" I've been doing great on rail track, and have recently purchased a 23 1/4 inch tack section, and if i decide to spend the money a six foot section. i've considered cutting the piece i have in half and welding the two pieced back together side by side, trimming the base section so the top edges will sit flush with one another, and welding it together. then since i have rods to burn welding the valley up and grinding it flat. so i would in effect have 6" by 11 3/4" ish working surface. as far as weight if more is better i could weld a plate one end of my doubled rail section and pour this 150 pound slab of lead i have into it for the weight. i dont have enough cash to spare for an anvil at the moment since im in the middle auto repair bills but i do have the rail the lead and tons of other scrap around my house and shop to make one for the cost of a few gallons of elbow grease. and thank you guys in advance for suggestions advice and better ideas than what i already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sell the lead and buy a large hunk of scrap steel---say a piece of an old bulldozer or the broken knuckle off a RR car. Far better to buy a single hunk than to try to cobble something together. Really if you have that much time and rod to burn you could probably do some welding for other people and BUY a great anvil in cash! Talk to your auto repair place and see if they would like a work bench welded up for them from your scrap on hand! What a large anvil does is put more of the force of the hammer blow into deforming your workpiece and not moving the anvil around---inertia. With the stuff you do a 150# anvil would probably be fine, a nice chunk of 6" shafting would make a great anvil. If we knew where you were we might be able to suggest a place to look for something. As it is we don't know if you are in South Boston, South America or South Africa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 lol i live in mississippi. and the area i live in is rife with welders and weldors to match. ive tried to ply that skill for cash and there's just WAY too much competition. its also got a tad bit to do with me being overkill at do it your selfing. but thank you for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 besides lead goes for $10 usd per 100 pounds. so my lead is basically worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 So get a mold and make sinkers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Or make a mold. I found one of Grandpa's molds (in my parents basement) that he used a large diameter drill and spotted a piece of mild steel in several places, then sawed in lines to lay a piece of twisted wire and another as the sprue. His mold makes 3 at a time, the biggest being 1oz, and the smallest about 1/2 oz. It has a handle and a door hinge welded on too, but I didn't see a latch. You can use mig wire to make the loop for attaching. As the anvil goes, weight is a good thing, but being a solid mass that is firmly anchored to the Earth is more important. Weld up a good tripod stand for your rail segment and don't worry too much about it. A 50# anvil well mounted will outperform a 100# anvil that is loose. Make sure the bottoms of the tripod have feet that can be fastened to the ground. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 If you have tons of scrap steel sell 3 or 4 tons and buy an anvil. I just sold scrap. shredd grade $180 a ton. 3 ton should get you a pretty nice anvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 all great ideas, but i dont have a truck.. i dont have any scrap. well scrap i either am not using or wont use. im gonna drive a post into the ground pretty deep to fasten it to. and as for the sinker mold ive seen old school molds like that before, and most of the time a small C clamp was used to hole it shut. but thanks for all the great advice guys. pros it will be small with a larg work area. nice and heavy so less likely to move around lead will dampen the ringing. its cheap.. well free plus elbow grease. certainly be one of a kind will have a T stake on one end cons heavy hard to move. will take a ton of work. will take a lot of time. so the work i dont mind.. actually enjoy it. i dont plan on moving it. and ive got the time. besides if i had the money to buy an anvil its would be getting spent on bills christmas or the little woman. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It comes down to how you want to spend your time: learning to smith or doing welding that you already know. I'd suggest trying to maximize the first and minimize the second and *forge* a lot of Christmas Presents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluidsteel Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sounds like you have what you have to work with. I think your idea of welding two pieces base to base and standing on end is a good idea. It will give you a decent area to work on. Not sure how well the lead will bond to the steel and not get a gap that will eventually allow vibration/ringing. It's worth a try. In one of Wayne Goddard's books, The $50 Knife Shop or The Wonder of Knifemaking, he has an anvil made from track that he still uses that's been modified by filling the valley's like you are suggesting but it's set flat, not on end. I say do it and get to work. The most you have to lose is time. I imagine it won't be as efficient as a traditional anvil, but not everyone starts with one. The only alternative I'd suggest is trying to find a piece of 4"x4" or so scrap 4140 etc to make a post anvil. I know several knifemakers who use a post anvil like that exclusively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 thanks for the input guys. as long as the lead is poured almost red and the steel is rough it will stick. same principal as soldering pipe... just a bigger gap and more lead solder.i think my biggest issue is going to be cutting the flats on the bottoms of the rails so that the top track sections are snug to one another.im sure the plasma cutter i have access to can do it. i know a guy thats been making blades on the same 1 foot section of rail for 15 years now. i spoke with him last night and he told me an anvile is great for everything else in the world, but there are purpose built anvils for a reason. nail makers, file makers, farriers and such for a reason. each design has its merits for the job it was meant for. he went on to saw that as far as a blade maker is concerned we are limited to anvils designed for every other job in the world, so someone should purpose build a knife makers anvil. he said the flat topped rail he has had for the past 15 years has been the best blade anvil he could have ever asked for. he looked over my ideas. said that it looked like i have accidentally designed the perfect short (less than 14 inches) blade anvil. and thought that adding a T post instead of a horn was a stroke of genious as far as blade smithing goes. he explained why but i cant recall that at the moment. something to do with finish work on metal handle parts..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 but that is only one mans opinion, and i think he may have just been being nice lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 They have been making knifemakers anvils for centuries---see the cutler's anvil at the Deutsches Klingen Museum in Solingen Germany or the ones in Sheffield England. In the neotribal smithing area folks have been using large square stock set vertically in a bucket of cement for bladesmithing and folks are selling them too. He's right about the London pattern anvil being more of the "swiss army knife" of anvils; but "quantity has a quality of it's own" to steal a line---you can notice the difference in the amount of work you do working on a larger more stable anvil; but big chunks of steel are not that hard to find----just move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 If I were you, I would get in contact with the Mississippi Forge Council. They are the local blacksmithing group. I know you could get an anvil quickly. Unless you just don't want one. I started with a rail anvil, and I still use it today. However, an anvil that is well designed and professionally constructed, even if its hundreds of years old, is a much better option in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 the mississippi forge council fits in to the group of people i get frowned on by. dated one guys daughter she cheated i left she blamed everything on me he talks trash about me to everyone....... that whole bit. but that still comes back to a matter of not having the money to spare so im stuck having to work with what i have. i have seen the cutlers anvils even used one once, and im just not comfortable witht he design. like chevy engines and fords. they do the same thing the same way but some folks are just more comfy with one thatn the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmiduke Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 its a great idea. it will work like a charm, and your theories are correct. I have owned several of the cutlers anvils, IMO they are junk. great for making 16th century forks and such, but not much else. don't listen to anything anyone here has to say on the subject. I am a 9th generation smith. Black, Silver, Copper, and gold. the best anvil you can buy is one that you purpose build for yourself. no two people work the same way. if you buy an anvil you have to learn to work for it in a sense. custom building an anvile gives you more options. you can build it to work for you. not all smiths use features of a particular style of anvil. personaly i have never used a horn. i haven't had a use for one. the T Anvil that fits my hardy hole serves its purpose as well as the usual purposes of a T anvil. it takes work, it takes time, and often takes money but in the end you will have an anvil that fits you. after all there is a reason there are so many styles of anvil. they each fit a person. if you cant find or afford one that fits you, make it. it would seem after reading the replies to your post the collective creativity and imagination is slowly bleeding from our once proud heritage. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 hi jimmi and thanks. welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justwondering01 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Just a note, lead goes for a lot more than $10/100 pounds. I regularly sell it to bullet casters for $1/pound shipped. You can easily get 50 pounds in a medium USPS flat rate box and that costs $10.50 to ship anywhere in the US. That gets you about $0.85/pound. If you have a couple of hundred pounds your well on your way to having enough for an anvil. Try this website if you want to sell it.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Walley Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 thanks. i will most likely sell the left overs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Very effective "no snag" sinkers can be made, using a spoon for a mold. Teaspoons yield sinkers in the 1/2 ounce to 1 ounce range. Bigger spoons make bigger sinkers. The flat, "teardrop" shape works well in mud, rocky or sandy bottoms, ... and won't "roll" in a swift current, the way most "store bought" designs will. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I would suggest that you just get started. You have a plan, it might not be what I or others would plan but that don't make it wrong. You'll learn a lot from doing it and using it later. You'll know more about what you want or don't want in an anvil. Sometimes you have to go with the saying "Do SOMETHING! Even if it's wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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