poundhound Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hello again, I am just starting and used a couple of railroad spikes to attempt a couple of knifes. I have the blades about where I want them (or they want me). but I was thinking of putting in a fuller (also known as a cannelure) in the wider of the two blade running parallel to the top. Do I do this taking it back to the forge and try to hammer it in, or is it a purely grinding operation? if I was making a knife from scratch is it done at the time of forging or later with a grinder/Lathe? PoundHound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I forge them in before doing the bevels. but they can be ground in later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 More forge, less grind. At least that is what I attempt to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundhound Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks, It is helpful to hear from those who have expertise to save time an effort then to use trial and error to figure things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Here's a popular way to scrape/finish a gutter: ore information HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I don't trust myself to forge them in, especially on both sides of a blade. My hammer control isn't that good, although you could certainly make something along the lines of a guillotine tool to do it. I have used scrapers, and they do a surprisingly quick job of it -- depending on the size and depth of the fuller you want. (And old file can make an excellent scraper.) I made a very simple one, based on this one by Alan Longmire, out of barely-tempered O1:http://forums.dfoggknives.com/uploads/post-510-1169572794.jpg http://forums.dfoggknives.com/uploads/post-510-1169572685.jpg Obviously, that's not a very flexible design. Tai Goo made kind of an intermediate version:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/taigoo/fulleringtools.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlegardener Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 thank you Matt for the Dan Fogg photo links, I may try something like that. It seems like a pretty easy to build system for a single blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob N. Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I recently saw "Birth of a Sword" and the smith made a great fullering tool. He said that (and he had a very nice graphic of this) using a scraping tool, or mill, thus cutting material out of the blade was a bad idea. Can anybody else speak on this? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I recently saw "Birth of a Sword" and the smith made a great fullering tool. He said that (and he had a very nice graphic of this) using a scraping tool, or mill, thus cutting material out of the blade was a bad idea. Can anybody else speak on this? Thanks in advance. Depending on the desired results and the materials used (and the availability and cost of materials) forging will use less material, and will preserve grain and structure (such as for wrought or blister steels) and would then be more historically accurate to certain time periods. Finishing would still be done by scraping and grinding. For modern steels which are readily available, conservation of materials is not very necessary, and the material quality is high enough that even a blade made entirely from well selected material by stock removal and properly heat treated will have better properties than materials available 200+ years ago. The specific context is needed for understanding that statement. I feel both methods are proper and appropriate in a modern shop using modern materials. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilikilt Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Hello I have begun work on an 18th century Scottish dirk blade for a customer, and wanted to do some fullering lengthwise along the spine of the blade. I want to start fairly simple such as what is seen in this example, but wonder how this is done. I know that a top fuller and bottom die are used, and that the blade is moved in between, but I recognize that with a simple handheld fuller used with a hardy tool, I will at least need a 3rd arm or striker, and more skill than I currently possess in order to keep the blade perfectly straight while the fullering is being done. Seeing the fuller on this dirk, I suspect it was done freehand with a sriker I suspect that many of you who work alone use some sort of jig to accomplish this, and am wondering what those jigs look like, and how they work. I'm picturing something that is as simple as a blunt chisel with an adjustable hooked guide arm attached, or something slightly more elaborate that operates similarly to a drill press vise, but instead of a 2nd vise jaw, you have an open-ended guillotine tool. Maybe it's better to have an adjustable stop built directly into the guillotine tool Am I on the right track here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 You can make a spring tool or a "C" frame tool holder. You can use a fence to get the groove started then just use the groove as a guide. If you leave the fence on it'll be pushing away from the fence as the metal spreads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 With a spring fuller one person can do this. This can also be done with a sen,,it is a cutting tool. I think there is a lot of information in the site aboiut both of these options..; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I would scrape that fuller in (or grind it) . It looks to fine for forging ...or It could have been rough forged and then scraped. forging is just one tool , this looks like a job for stock removal. scrapers can be as simple as an old file with a split in it and one leg of the split bent 90deg and sharpened as a lathe tool , the position of the other leg dictated the distance the scraper sits from the edge of the blade. I'll try and dig some pictures up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmHorus Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I was shown the scraping tool someone uses, they take an old worn out file and split the tip one side they use as a guide against the spine and the other piece they round a little to scrape with, I have not made one yet but thats what I was shown and told to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilikilt Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Wow, never thought about stock removal.....You guys are certainly giving me a lot of food for thought :--) Yes, I was thinking of a "C shape" when mentioning the open ended guide,and yes fullering spreads metal (Duh! why didn't I think of that?) The "Sen" you mention, this tool here?? http://www.dfoggknives.com/photogallery/MakingSen/makingsen.html If your blade is made from a leaf spring, and your sen is made from the same, would your sen would be tempered in the straw/bronze color range to work on a blade in it's annealed state? The file idea is a good one...I have a few old worn Nicholson files and will experiment with this idea before trying it on anything I have some hours into Thanks again fellas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 ive seen a tool that uses a lathe bit to scrape it in... it works and is fairly easy to get a straight cut.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 A photo of mine is here, the first tool, tho this is for 5/8 inch fullers it should work for smaller ones also. I have had this a while, so you can see the many repairs I have had to make since I first made it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantofolder Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I recently made a fullering tool (stock removal type) that attaches to my angle grinder.It is simply a piece of angle iron that rides along the edge of the workpiece and is attached to the grinder by a bracket.The hole/slot on the bracket bolts into one of the threaded holes on either side of the grinder head.The threaded holes are where you normally attach your grinder handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowt Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 don't know what its proper name is, but we always called them the blacksmith's helper I made one similar to this for setting shoulders etc, but what about one of these with the tools going lengthways for fullering instead of across? 3rd hand sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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