Tools to make Hammers

[Countryforge]

I noticed in many of your pics some participants are standing on platforms making tools as if the anvils they are using are too high. How high is the small portable block anvil you have with you?

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Mine is 27 3/4" high. I suggest no taller than 30", but shorter is better. You want the full throw of your sledge hammer. While at the Ag museum in Mississippi my anvil sunk into the ground and stopped at 18", and that was even better for the striker, but a little low for the director.

[Alec.S]

yes, the boxes are used for people of somewhat less than normal height for a blacksmith! prime example : me!

[Elemental Metal Creations]

Portable tripod beater,

pics please.

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Mike Tanner's version...

[Spurrit]

I have some wrist pins from a Cummins diesel available to me that I want to make hammers out of. Any idea what kinda metal they are?

[TMIB]

This is a great thread, I've been reading up on this style of rounding hammer- posts here, videos on YouTube, Brian's pictures on Facebook, etc. I'd love to go learn directly from Brian, but that kind of journey across the country would take more time than I can give at once. Since that's not an option yet, I'm going to give it a try on my own. First step is gathering or building the tools I don't have yet. Most of these I know how to build, but the cupping tool is interesting. This thread has really helped, but I'm still having trouble visualizing the specifics, and what tools I'll need to build the cupping tool.

 

It seems the the first part of this is pretty straightforward; just like building any other hardy tool, at some point you'll have a piece of metal that's shouldered down to a taper to fit the hardy hole, with a larger mass above it.

 

From Brian's post above, if I'm understanding right the next step is to forge the larger mass down to an even thickness, with even sides (octagon, hex, etc.). There's a bit of natural hollowing out of the bowl that will happen at this point by virtue of compressing the sides.

 

However at this next step you need a ball fuller. Since I don't have one of those yet either, do you think it would work to use a large trailer ball hitch to dish out the "bowl" of the cupping tool? I picture holding the threaded end of the hitch ball in a set of tongs (or have it welded or threaded to a shaft to hold it) and have a striker working at it while I move it around to form the cup.

Do you think that would work?

[David Gaddis]

You will not need a ball fuller. As you work the metal down...holding the anvil tool sideways...the tool takes on a new shape. You continue around the edge colapsing it...more and more. Soon you see there is a hollowing appear right in the middle of the anvil tool. Of course there may be some touching up.

 

One of the secret things that happens  with these tools comes from rotating positions of the stock. While the stock is hot and being hit, you move the piece 180 degrees occasionally, and strike from different positions too. Look at some of Brian's videos and notice how often the striker moves from one side to the other...and between heats the newly forged hammer head is rotated too. kinda like a snake dance..that is where the magic happens.

 

The cupping tool is not perfect in its shape. The hammer get perfected by striking..re-positioning...striking...re-positioning. It is a matter of averaging. If you do not lift the hammerhead and re-position often you project is gonna get lopsided.

 

Alec ...you try to explain that cupping tool.

[TMIB]

Thanks for the insight. I had read about the cup portion becoming a bit hollowed out as you create the sides, but hadn't really thought it through that clearly. I'm now picturing where the metal is going to move as you work the edges- and it makes a little more sense. Would it be fair to say that in this process you are essentially raising the edges of the tool as you form the sides?

The video I saw of this with Alec & Brian was after the step of collapsing the sides, so I didn't get a good look at that step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOLfCYCZ82k

I'm just trying to get a good idea of this in my head. Of course the best thing for me to do is probably just go try it, but since my forge is about 50 miles away right now, I'm stuck "armchair blacksmithing." :)

 

--Tracy

[Alec.S]

TMIB!
You have it down!
taper
cut
upset
collapse
ball fuller!

As dave says, doesnt have to be perfect so long as when forging faces, you are moving around to even it out!
180°
90°
180
90° etc!

Happy forging!
Alec!

[TMIB]

Thanks Alec! I'm going through withdrawal right now being so far away from my equipment, but I'll make sure and post pictures and details when I give this a go.

 

--Tracy

[rockstar.esq]

Really, really great thread!

[TMIB]

I'm trying to decide on the starting size of the billet. I have some billets of 1045 that are 2.187" x 4.125". They weigh 66.8 oz (4.175 lb) according to my postal scale. That matches what I'm seeing on the online metals weight calculator (http://www.onlinemetals.com/calculator.cfm)

 

When all is said and done, I'd like hammer in the 3-3.25 lb range, but I'm not sure how much loss there is from punching, shaping, polishing and grinding.  other posts I've seen here lead me to believe it's about 4 oz. on a 2" diameter billet.

So based on that, I think I need to shorten these billets by about 3/4" before I start. That'd put them at 3.58 lbs before forging, which I think will put me in the right range when all is said and done.

Of course, the best bet is admittedly just to try it and see. :)

[Alec.S]

Make it out of that stock to get a 4lb hammer! Seriously, once you start using it, you will never go back!

Otherwise, cut off half an inch to lose some weight!

Dont cut off too much other wise your fullers may extend too close to the faces and make it take alot more grinding to fix!

alec

[TMIB]

Make it out of that stock to get a 4lb hammer! Seriously, once you start using it, you will never go back!

Otherwise, cut off half an inch to lose some weight!

Dont cut off too much other wise your fullers may extend too close to the faces and make it take alot more grinding to fix!

alec

 

I've got one 4lb hammer that I use for larger jobs. It's not a rounding hammer, but I have a pretty good radius on the face and it moves metal well. However for most of my stuff I use a 3 lb hammer. I've got 4 of these 1045 billets now, so I will probably make one of them into a 4 lb hammer, but I'd like to build one in the 3lb range first, for everyday use.
 

Instead of shortening it by 3/4" I suppose one option would be to just turn it down on the lathe until it's 2" diameter again. That'd cut off the extra weight and still leave the overall length. That's a bit more work than just using the band saw to lop off a chunk though. :)

 

[TMIB]

I got up to scout camp this weekend, and in between working on projects to get stuff ready for a blacksmithing event next month and general camp cleanup work (mostly bucking wood), I was able to get a couple hours in the smithy to work on my own projects.

I made a ball tool out of an old trailer hitch with a piece of round stock wrapped around the shaft for a handle. I also made a cupping tool out of a piece of jackhammer shaft. I tapered the end to fit the hardy, cut it off a couple inches above that and upset the end into a round disc. I then worked the edges- first squaring off the sides, then octagon, then round, just like rounding up a square bar. I was happy to see the middle dishing itself out nicely.  I was able to get another volunteer to stop by and help me for a few minutes to hold the ball tool while I struck it to even out the cup.

Lessons learned:

1) if I make another tool like this with a jackhammer bit, I won't use one with a collar. While the collar makes an easy edge to set it in the hardy, this is better for something like a hot cut tool. As it was, I managed to get a cold shut when I upset the end into the disk shape, and it pushed up against the collar. Probably not a big deal given the nature of this particular tool, but avoiding shuts is good practice.

 

2) after upsetting the end, and before working the edges, I should have done some cleanup/planishing blows. There's one spot where the edge of the sledge left a mark that I didn't remove, and this ended up as a mark in the cup. The ball tool removed it a bit, but it's still there. Care will need to be taken when making a hammer face in the cup to ensure I move around to even out the effect of these imperfections.

 

3) having a striker would have made this whole process a lot easier. As it was, having a helper for a few minutes using the ball tool really made that step go quickly, but the rest of it was pretty time consuming.

 

Here's the tools:

 

 

 

[TMIB]

I started punching the eye for the hammer, but stopped after just a little bit. I was having trouble working efficiently without losing too much heat from the steel. (Again, a striker would really have helped here.)

 

I was only gaining a small distance per heat, and noticed that I was marring the lower portion of the billet on the vise edge. I will try again sometimes when I can have someone help.

When you punch the eye for the hammer, how do you typically keep it from moving/rolling? Do you use some kind of jig? In order to avoid the marks from the vise, I was thinking of a couple of round bars tack welded down to a plate with a hardy shank. The billet would sit on these (similar to a v-block for drilling)

 

Edit: I looked through some pictures of folks making some hammers with Brian- it looks like the way to keep it from moving is to have more than one set of hands. :) (one smith to hold the steel with tongs and to hold the slitter, the other smith to strike it.)
 

 

anyway, here's the small amount of progress on the eye:

 

 

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

I believe Alec will be the demonstrator at the NWBA spring conference this year. You may want to wait a bit to see these things done in person. The cupping tool only takes 15 minutes or 5 heats to do once you understand it and do it a few times. The hammer can be forged in a half hour to an hour after you understand it.

[TMIB]

Thanks Brian. I am looking forward to meeting Alec and seeing him demonstrate at the conference. I will likely keep trying on my own until then though. Even though I will make mistakes, I learn a lot by going hands-on, and I will get more out of the demonstrations if I have tried it myself first. It gives me a good context and I will be able to catch some of the things the demonstrator does that might have slipped by me otherwise. Plus it's always cool to have that "a-ha!" moment when a demonstrator shows a way to do something easily that I had struggled with.

The cupping tool didn't take too long once underway, despite not having a helper for most of it. I will make another one soon to improve, and to put the mistakes of the first one to use helping make the second one better.

[John B]

 

I was only gaining a small distance per heat, and noticed that I was marring the lower portion of the billet on the vise edge. I will try again sometimes when I can have someone help.

When you punch the eye for the hammer, how do you typically keep it from moving/rolling?

 
If you are punching through bar it helps if you forge a flat on it so tends not to roll when on the anvil and you start your punching, and it makes it easier to position the punch square to the bar/anvil face and on the centre of your workpiece.

Punching through on vice jaws does not give anywhere near enough the support(or location)needed.

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

I've had a lot of people ask me how they should make a hammer if they do not have a striker. I usually tell them to get a punch press and a utility hammer or do something else.

[KYBOY]

One person about has to square up the billet first..Ive made a rounding hammer like these(two actually) with a large guillotine tool..It was miserable..Our 50lg dosnt have the headspace to use large top and bottom tools for hammer making.

 Let me tell you..If you want to know what kind of man you are try splitting/drifitng and forging a piece of 2 1/2" round 5" long chunk of 4150 by yourself by hand..Its a humbling exp..

[basher]

I have made quite a few hammers on my own without the aid of a power hammer / press it is doable but not time efficient or pleasant . I had a power hammer but had the same head space problems as KYBOY with my goliath.

 Drilling two  small guide holes through the billet helps the process along and is only part cheating.

 I do a lot of pommel punching into the round recesses of a swage block as this helps keep the round shape and I have the jaws  my main leg vice rounded off as I use it for drifting axes . I must get round to mounting it lower...

[Francis Trez Cole]

Tmib you are going in the right direction mice cupping tool. I have used a swedge block as well for bigger hammers. The only thing I would give my self a flat side to punch into dose not have to be more than a 1/2" wide. I punch, drift, and shape a hammer in an hour with out a power hammer, treadle hammer, fly press or striker.  

[TMIB]

I finished the first hammer today. I say "first" since I plan to take what I've learned from this one and make more. It turned out ok, particularly since I was mostly just looking at pictures of what others have done in order to make it. (thanks to folks that offered advice and links to videos!)

On the next one, I'll concentrate a bit more on symmetry, and remember to use bolsters every time I put the drift through. There were a few times when I was putting the drift through just to use as a handle, and ended up knocking flats on the edges of the faces.

I've got a temporary, store bought hammer-handle on it now, but I'm planning to make my own handle to go on it. (I'm considering forging a drawknife first, then using the drawknife to make the handle)

Final weight came out at 3.3 lbs.

Here it is:









What do you think? What should I do differently on the next one?

--TMIB