jake pogrebinsky Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Beth,you truly are an extremely nice person.Now,that word is sadly over-,and mis-used,so i'll have to specify that i'm using it in the very original,English sense,a meaning that includes,among others,both compassionate and humane. And i'd venture a timid guess that that's exactly the point(one of the more redeemable ones ) of exercising the more conventional "religion" with all of it's strictures-it is in the hopes of raising the children that think the way you do.Obviously,it works at least sometimes! Thank you,and 10/4 on all that you've said. I've been very busy and scattered lately,i couldn't resist taking on a smal order to go to the Old Country(i've shipped orders to Europe and even Australia before,but never back there,somehow).And the communicating with a gentleman who now becomes a client was very time consuming. It's a very small and seemingly insignificant thing,a handful of hooks,of all things!But it fits so neatly into my inquiry into the size/scope/"quality" mystery that i absolutely could not resist.I'll try to make a batch of extra-cute Bespoke hooks(love that word,had to put it in there somewhere!!!). The Gloustershire-inspired job has been challenging me to the absolue extreme of my skill,design and execution alike.I absolutely intend to give it a superlative effort,but am on the very brink of my ability for sure... I'd really,really like to give at least some indication,reflection,no matter how feeble, of those sweeping and converging shapes of that ceiling. Much Gothic element is very tricky.It isn't quite floral,nor entirely geometric,it's a cunning mix of these two tweaked in a very distinct way.Beginning to suspect that some of it May have to do with the time some of those guys put in "in the service",in Palestine,and relates to the Muslim prohibition on the images of living things(violation of the Creator's copyright! ) .Anyway,it's all exciting,but very exhausting,i may do this neat thread of ours more justice in the morning! Couple of photos of assorted processes,if someone's truly bored,and before i forget again: Bryan,what are the dimentions of that Husq.poll,if i may ask?(Will start hunting for material tomorrow). Much respect and admiration for you guys,all the very best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 COOL looking stuff Jake! Isn't it exciting to work at the edge? Learning so fast and working so hard yet SO satisfying! I like your hook! The ball end is so extravagant but... nice! I notice the forepunched holes... I know a farrier who does his shoes that way. He is a very unusual farrier... he buys these shoe blanks from a local Amish smith. They are 3/4" or maybe even 7/8" rounds flattened on one side. HEAVY shoes! He shoes standardbred show horses with them and then removes the shoes at the shows and replaces them with featherweight aluminum shoes so that the horses go into the ring with their feet suddenly seeming as if they float! This fosters an exaggerated high stepping gait that gives them an edge in the shows. Anyway instead of the more common creasing he uses a forepunch to seat the heads of his nails. I finally got a fire going myself last evening! It was a cool evening here in MO. We have had such SCORCHING weather until just lately that even thinking of fire was disgusting. I made some nice little chisel/scraper tools modeled after a type of pallet knife that I have found very useful. If I can find my camera I will try to get some pics for you. I also worked on some belt buckles... sorely needed as my pants will be falling off if I don't replace my current belt (cheap, store bought thing) which is falling apart. I have given away several of these belts and buckles and some are never worn but others have said that they've never had such a nice one in their whole lives and wear them daily. I worked small steel fast and only burned 2 or 3 shovels of coal! I hate to waste coal. I have work for the chisel tools peeling off paint from a deteriorating substrate so that I can repair it with my magical Kwik-Poly. I used spring steel for the tools so it was hard but the Anyang ate it up! I have yet to final grind and sharpen today so I will see what kind of HT quality I achieved. I just oil quenched and flamed off to temper (6 dip and flame cycles each... should be okay as the blades are fairly thin). I like the gothic work too and am anxious to see it coming together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Wow,Clay,that's an interesting,and a very useful project:Scrapers are not easy to come by,in needed shapes,and STIffness,which can be so critical.So,you're out to make some out of spring,to be tough and last? I well remember this one job,scraping the woodwork off in an entire Victorian-era/style apartment back East,wainscoting EVERYWHERE,huge,wide,COMPLICATED trim on doors and windows,barely any wall un-panelled.It was a nigntmare that lasted months,and wide rivers of stripper flowed,for we could never find the correct mech.scrapers... I'm not going to even ask just how nice it is to run a self-contained pneumatic hammer,good for you!!! Belt-buckles are easy to make,especially in all the more archaic flavors,but darn it,they come out so heavy..Already,every night i feel like one of your friend's horses-when i drop my 59 lb pants down,with a clatter of all the crap in the pockets and on the belt...It's really tough on one's back,over the course of the day,to be packing a pound's worth of buckle...Hows about some leather strap suspenders instead?We're old fogies now,what do we got to loose By "forepunch",Sir,i take it that you mean some proper tool,with a wide part following the punch-end?Alas,i only use an old ball-peen as a countersink(which is most improper:It distorts the hole,and you may even need to use the punch again,then the sink,AGAIN,and so ad infinitum feeling like a genius that i am:)BUT!The silver lining is that you can,VISUALLY,balance somewhat a mis-punched,off-center hole,making it look almost deliberate). I'm having a hard time adressing the "primitive" factor in the order,as it was specified that the work is to be random-ish,and on the crude side.But that small ga.WI is so refined that it's tough NOT to slick it down! It IS a lot of joy to be properly challenged at the forge.With Beth here it helps a lot to try to imagine all those Gothic environments over there,just the sound of the word "Gloustershire" itself(i can only imagine just how it's pronounced there,too!:)It really helps to get into the spirit,or try to,at least. There's that one detail that's subtle,but very important:Much of the more complex old work was balanced NOT by careful proportioning of parts to be identical,but as a whole.If one looks closely,the individual curlicues or whatever may differ quite significantly,but OVERALL,the piece looks perfectly,geometrically balanced.An intuitive,talent/vision/practice trick,that. Stonework,of course,is not an example of it.But Yellin's complex grills sure are,much difference between the elements that,hypothetically,are supposed to be carbon copy of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 well you two have cheered me with your funny informative posts -big foot - i love your ingenious friends tricksie ways with his horse!!! thats great and reminds me of giant vegetable growers going to any length for a enormous result... obbsessive behaviiour - i iike it! and also jake your heavy trousers made me laugh out loud ( we call them trousers gentlemen pants go under trousers in Gloucestershire!) very amusing to think of the back breaking weight of your hand made buckles! theres something so comical about that - you should do a cartoon... i might do a cartoon!!! and theres officially and def no shame in going the leather braces route - Go For it lads! in uk if you see someone wearing braces you say 'rock on tommy' but i cant for the life of me remember why!... i got out of bed the wrong side today and have been v irritable all day - am training a pup at the moment who has been ok recently but even he noticed the bad black mood and played me up made my shoulders hurt so thanks for the laughs jake firstly i REALLY like the hook pictuyre - i love those funny knobby bits you do like a giant faceted jewel - they look amazing! i want to go and make one. i get two days in the workshop next week if i play my cards corectly so i may even post my atempt. any tips jake? its tricky when customer says they want something to be crude/rustic/organic etc - you neevr know quite how much they want you to apply that (do they even really mean it)- how long is a piece of string - how wobbley do you want it? simply using words to describe a whole asthetic is problematic... i love what youve done there though and i think its just right. the weight looks yummy - i wouldnt want spindly whimpy little hooks in my house.... at all. Project Goth is coming on a dream - im so happy that you think glos..shire is some mystically laden gothic treaure trove! it kind of is and isnt if you know what i mean - you just retain the 'Is' thoughts about my part of the world tho jake - im happy with that! this is how i say it - gloucestershire= gloss ter sh ear i hope that pronunciation does not in any tiniest way , detract from the illusion or dissappoint in the remotest sense..... i like the deep marks on the bit in the second picture. just like em.. and i truly like the archy bits at the bottom - its remindng me now of a wicker victorian fly swat! ( i think...!) i will try to find a picture of one.... and for this balance issue - i actually think if all parts are identical and symetrical (or even very very nearly) its not quite so good as that subtle instinctive way you can balance as a whole... iknow what youre on about and i believe that on a good day with the wind in my favour i can do that stuff - so much of this i cant do but i feel a kin and some confidence with this area - im not sure why. its to do with something like glazing over slightly visually and seeing beyond the edges of the actual pieces, more like imagining them only being finished when all assembled, only being finalised in shape when all assembled? i may be talking complete b*****ks for which im happy to apologise - its been a long black dayin my head - i think there needs to be some thunder round here! also jake im pleased to have made a nice impression on you as you certainly have on me - so encouraging and enthusiastic! although i have to say to be honest i do have a terrible terrible side, and have done many awful things over the years. nuff said! big foot - put your pics up too! hopefully i get my workshop time next week and i promise i will post the result however awful, to make up for my constant taking and not giving on this thread!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The poll is tear drop shaped and 1 3/4" long by 3/4" wide. At the back of the hatchet its 1 5/8" deep. I've been slowed down some. I have a roof going on. They were here yesterday to stack materials on it. I need to get the pole barn sheeted. I'm doing that tomorrow. And I need to get 6 cords of firewood delivered this next week. So alot of activity. I was going to work in the shop today, its absolutely georgous out today. Beautiful blue skies. Clear and you can see forever. I really do love living here. But, if I do that I won't be able to sheet the pole barn tomorrow. I have to pick my battles carefully. I have a good intermediate project in mind. Not super complicated but something I've not done before. Just a simple BBQ set. Meat fork, steak flipper, and I don' t know what else to make for it yet. But those two to start at least. Just a nice set I can use. And make a few for gifts for family and friends I think would be nice to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Beth,just very shortly(i OUGHT to be forging,but,goddamn it,the inspiration for the entire project does indeed come out of your Britishness,Beth(thanks for that latest installment,it's lovely,i've never known such developed anglophilia in meself even existed-really,thanks a lot,i mean it seriously this time!). Those faceted "bits"()are,indeed,cool,they're a great practice,as in warm-up,and a neat little trick in the constant battle-the DIFFERENTIATION of MASS(our main job as blacksmiths). They're a function of fullering off a short,stout section,separating it off for the time being by a max.short/stout "neck",yet the fuller all around the neck being deep enough to use as shoulder over the edge of anvil. So:The rod is held below the anvil,with the edge of anvil fitting the neck or fuller,and the future bit protruding above the anvil on a 45-degree angle. The bit is worked square,just like any other work,but on the diagonals.The first few blows will be in part upsetting blows. Soon,as the bit is more ball-like,you'll have it by the (bits ),total control of it,and then can facet in any number of ways,or start rolling it to forge an actual sphere. At first it'll be tough,as the neck(being less stock)will want to bend over the anvil instead of letting you direct the energy diagonally through the bit.So there's always a moment of monkeying with it slightly out of control.But soon you beat it into submission,that is so much the sweeter for the suffering. Und,zo:The neck not too deep nor shallow(say,50% of stock),the bit originally cubic-ish in mass(later,when your masochism matures,you'll be biting off more and more,using this as a twisted way to upset more stuff into the bit.Greed!MOORE!!!). And you work over an edge that is not too sharp(to hurt the stock),nor too rounded to drive the ball slipping down.Just sharp enough to catch the shoulder of fuller. If all this is clear as mud,i'll take stage by stafe photos.Need to get my sorry ass in the shop anyhoo...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 OK,in brief: Heat one:Small round stock is molested and chewed-up,leaving just a little too long a bit on end... Heat 2.A miracle!Managed to pinch it between some random blows.Got it now. Heat 3.Total control now,can facet it to my heart's content.There's about 17000 ways to do it,but i only use one,a creative genius that i am. And now,if you want to be a wimp,and a wuss,and a REASONABLE person,for some reason,here's how you actually do it,as in RIGHT WAY.(Yeach...). Now,you can draw it out more(the stem),thinning it down in the process till it pings that bit off,due to overworking.Now,you're free to utter the most horrible and satisfying imprecations!Like Farmer Boggs,in "Fantastic Mr.Fox",Dang and Blast the Lousy Beast!!!(How's that for my British practice?) You must make sure that your tong hand is directly underneath the hammer,that way the festering burns on that hand will never heal.Also,never dress your tools,or maintain them in any way,or your bellybutton will not develop into a prehensile organ,and you won't be able to use it to read Braille(Which will be very important for later,as the safety-glasses are TABOO,bring terrible luck!). All this works!According to the latest,the Demosphenos Method!Trust me! I wonder if the Creator used His(Hers?) bellybutton,to create the Universe.Did Creator HAVE a bellybutton?! That's a most important question for the meditation while forging today. Also,from Kipling,"And you must Never forget the suspenders,O Dearly Beloved!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Okay I got my little chisels sharpened and the HT looks good... they'll all shave hair quite easily. I think I overheated one little corner on one while grinding a bit too quickly but I doubt I'll even notice it in rough use. I intend to kind of pare away the paint coatings with these because there are areas where there are little cracks and the papery surface of the old masonite like siding is delaminating but the paint itself is pretty tough. I need to get through it though so that my Kwik-Poly can penetrate into and harden the siding. I expect to cut an opening with these and then peel off as much paint as will loosen when I get under it. Rain delayed the handling process but it has quit now so I must get that done before it starts in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Hey,these are great,Clay,something straight out of classic Japanese tool aesthetic,i really like them! Spring,you've said,as in a leaf-spring,you mean?The photos say "pallet",started wondering if you've laminated some strapping(Really gone Japanese ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Jake I used mostly old hay rake teeth for these except for one very old eye bolt. I've worked this steel before and it is less springy than modern spring steel but has more carbon and will harden more. It can easily be too brittle so you have to get a decent temper on it. I use these little plastic pallet knives a LOT (order them by the dozen):http://www.misterart.com/store/imagepreview.cfm?group_id=582 The ones I use are called the "Scotty" in the upper left of the image. I have found the shape very versatile and the plastic will scrape lots of delicate surfaces and get pretty tough with things too, when needed. I modeled my little chisels after this shape though they are intended to do as much cutting as scraping... getting really tough now. Back to the belt buckles... mine are not very heavy. I make them from rebar and they end up 17" by about 9/32" but rough hammer textured and both ends are tapered to a needley point . I twine them into a rectangular shape with a cross bar in the center where I crimp on a prong of 1/8" rod. I did the first ones from 1/2" rebar but now am starting with 3/8" which makes for a lot less drawing down. They are strong though and cool looking. Back in my native state of Idaho about 80 percent of the loggers wore suspenders. They had a marked preference for wide bright red ones. They typically wore them with black wool trousers and high-heeled logging boots "Whites" the favored brand (my nephew is now a foreman at their plant in Spokane). I have worked my knobs similarly though I've not done any in such small scale so mine are usually worked against the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Beth this farrier grew up in a family who bred and showed these horses. They are commonly worth tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars each... so a little edge is well worth the price of a few extra shoeings. He no longer raises the horses himself but shoes for numerous breeders. BTW Jake the fore punch he uses is a separate tool. He punches the indent and then uses a pritchel punch to punch on through for the nail shank. It's simpler that way because the pritchel has such a fine tip that it needs repointing often and it would be too difficult to maintain a stepped punch. He uses an oval forepunch and the pritchel is rectangular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Wonderful,Clay.Again,i think that you did a corker job on those knives,respect! Thanks for all the other info,too.I'm impressed that you have a connection into the White's!I don't do enough real work to justify having boots that nice,but do ogle them occasionally in catalogs,or on a rare visitor. You'd be surprised to hear that 100 or so years ago there were thousands of horses in this neck of the woods.Most were draft breeds,Belgian or Morgan crosses,and even some serious Percheron-types.Some shoes that i've found before are enormous,8"-10" across,cleated for ice in a crazy way.WI,the oldest ones.But with the steamboat traffic apparently the demand justified even shipping crates of factory blanks,have seen them around,too. I've much respect for farriers,and always wanted a horse,so bad it hurts...A mule,actually.There's a breeder in Canada,across the border,not too far,who specialises in Mammoth Asses!!!Has some that are 16 hands high,and jet-black!It really is painful to know that i'll never get to traipse around this country in a company of such a magnificent creature...(I'd call it Pookah)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I hope you don't mind if I digress a bit now that mules have been broken as a subject? My wife has worked in Springfield quite a bit over the last couple of years and has met a couple there that she really likes. They are REAL Ozark hillbillies who are well known in the area and famous for owning the "best mule in the county"! The mule is used to hunt foxes and very well trained. He does not leap over fences with his rider though... he stops in front of the fences and his rider dismounts and leads him till his nose touches the fence then he simply takes a standing leap over the fence and his rider crawls through it and off they go! Being that his rider is in his late seventies, this system seems sensible. He is known to take fences up to seven feet high without difficulty. I also worked forest service trails once with a packer who told me about one of his old mules. On long downhill stretches the packs would tend to work forward and this mule was smart enough to readjust his without human help... he'd find two trees growing just the right distance apart so that he would fit between but the pack would not... then he'd walk between them and use them to push his load back and back out to continue down the trail in comfort! This was the packer's example to me illustrating the superior intelligence of mules! On that same trail gig we had an old logger who served as our blaster and told me tales of his logging days driving a team of belgians. They would shoe them with heavy caulks for winter work. The weather was tough then but the logs slid easily on the snow and ice where there would have been boggy mud in summer. He would describe for me how these powerful giants would break out an iced in load with their bellies to the ground and huge muscles straining and bulging like comic book creatures. They'd pull left then right (haw then gee) then start off. Interestingly these commands would be opposite in meaning in Britain! You could easily tell how much respect, awe and even love this man had for his team! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 JAKE! am loving yourbritish interest - i have to say dang and blast the filthy beasts is sheer englishnes !!!!! the pupil learns well - his instincts are keen... have you read any beatrix potter? (childrens stories are such rich reads dont you think?) i think you would enjoy them - particularly the tale oF ginger and pickles - my personal favourite (although even as i say that i CAn think of loads of others worth the fave title... DILEMMA!!!) its a story about a ginger cat and a bad terrier (theyre both bad actually) who run a little shop but they just cant get it together they give everyone credit, eat all their own stock -- its hilarious - but mainly its the language - its fabulous. my kids were reared on the whole collection and are very wordy little individuals as a result . also have you read the other roalddahl stufff for kids - F mr Fox is surely the best, but also matilda the magic finger and the GENIUS the twits?? please tell me you read the twits - i cry laughing at that book... anyway... enuff of the childs fiction.. For Now.. am always astonished at the generous nature of the people on here but you have surpassed yourself and others for your kind documentation of the faceted jewel. That is very very crystal clear, not like mud, and i will do it next week on my allotted time out.. i know lots of people do something similar but not glorious chunky rocks like wot you do mr Pog... thanks so much for bothereing. i laughed heartily yet again at your tooling istructions. your a very comic man! i will of course - do exactly as you say... as for belly button, no i dont think creator has one, will dwell on it more, obviously, but i think that was his(hers? i like your feminist nod there.. ) unique gift to us, maybe the 4th eye???? big foot your scrapers look so cool - good enough to eat!!! they really do look good ( i know they are not meant to - they are made for a job but i LIKE their style) your buckle endevours sound very interesting - im slightly alarmed about the whole 'pants' coming down dynamic you two seem to living through - but i would like to make a buckle for my dad at some point - he likes things like that, and i like him! we aim to plaese, us daughters do... also very funny, suspenders over here mean something altogether more saucy, and are to do with frilly bizaar belt like creations women hold their thin useless nylony stockings up with sure you can picture the very item, although i have to add i dont own anything so uncomfortable and pointless personally. just so we got our trouser/pant braces/suspender vocab straight jake - why cant you have a mule??? you know i always desperately wanted a dog as a child,(was not alowed near a road too many children etcetc) and i thoroughly utterly relate to your 'so bad it hurts' comment - i know that feeling very well, and now i have dogs i still cant get over the excitment - even after nearly 20 years of having my own dogs. it bewilders me that i can go and "buy" simple exchange of something so dead as cash for one of these beautiful creatures... youve even got the name...i got a lump in my throat... i hope you guys have had a good working day - i have ben personally quite static, but have had the enjoyment of being an enabler of others tasks - my middle son is cooking, my youngest girl is working miracles on her little hand wound sewing m=chine i got her for her birthday last week - dont know if i told you this already - its nearly 100 years old ( they are 2 a penny here) and she is like a little victorian child beavering away on it - she has already made patchworks applique pictures of boats, a drawstring bag for her paint set and a fuly functioning cooking apron with a picture of a squirrel in a cage or something opn it which she cut out of curtain fabric i saved.! i love it! she is only 8 and im so proud :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 sorry just had to show you - its kind of related, its creativity in all its glory... her name is dolly and she is blimmin great here is her birthday sewing machine(she has long wanted one) and her work for today - cooking apron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Blimmin? I is gobsmacked! Your lass shows the creative genes you bestowed her, Y'all keep up this thread,it is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Aw,Beth,that picture of Dolly is the best thing about this entire goofy thread,i absolutely mean that.That is a gorgeous apron,too(and a KILLER old Singer!),tall Dolly that she's doing great at it,and if i but lived any closer,i'd order a custom apron fro her,for the shop-apron!(To disguise the unsettling-ly developing bellybutton.DON'T tell her that in Russia,the "squirrel" is a folk symbol,an allusion to DT's,as in "the squirrel has come to call...",but it's only one of the reasons why i so like it!). I'd like to do something for her,and the only thing that came to mind was to post the photos of the last of my ancient sleddogs...(I figured that because sometimes my friends bring their kids,and tell me:"We've come to look at Jake's dogs",as if i'm wondering why would they bring their kids around to see a filthy old hermit ).I don't know if Dolly likes dogs,but here they are anyway(sorry,they're at a molting stage now...),Eulah,and Oreo. But of course i've read Beatrix Potter!Every night,for many years!(Then,when my daughter was FINALLY tired of that,i've read it myself many times again!Children's Lit is infinitely worthwhile,better,in fact,then adult fiction any day ). And ALL of Dahl's books,naturally(that's why the quotes from all that are filling my head while forging). English children's books are a world of their very own.Burton-edited Fairy Book series(the different colored ones),Irish Fairy Tales edited by W.B.Yeats(now,THAT was a favorite for a long time!),i'm sure that i don't need to tell YOU,of all people,just how cool all those are... In the States there was the incomparable Laura Ingalls Wilder,my favorite author altogether,i think,anymore(Those that judge her books by TV series have missed the whole point.There's stuff in her books that tells more about US history and human psychology than a handful of college degrees). Man,the trouble with having a mule for me was my isolation from other similar animals(i'd at least have to have two of them,for company),but mostly the lack of vet care,and other surrounding support culture.The animal husbandry in these,pre-Polar regions amounts to selection by breeding,and a bullet to the brain as a general cure for ailments.(There are 6-8-10 dogs in a team,and if something happens to one or two,et c.,also you breed up or down with the food availability.I've had to kill several good dogs before just running short on food that season,and it's just too much for me anymore,i'm out of that game...). Like i said,long ago,during the Gold Rush,there were horses here,it was different then.There's one cool story about one old miner who lived out the Road from the village of Ruby(upriver of here).He shared his wall-tent with his mule,with a canvas wall in between,(for decency ). Every once in a while they'd head to Ruby,to clear the cobwebs out.The oldtimer would go to the bar,and the mule went out on the town to look for sleddogs to punish.He viciously tracked down and fought dogs every chance he had,and all the dogs in Ruby would go into hiding on those nights.By morning,they'd meet at the bar again,and head back out,for another month or two of work.An Alaskan Idyll... And even now,like when i surreptitiously look in on Clay's thread on Scyths,i realise how much organisation it takes to have horses,haying equipment,farriers/vets,knowledgable neighbors...And,money,nowadays especially.It's not like a horse or a mule can be worked for a living... A few years ago a friend in Fairbanks has lost one of his team of Percherons to an illness,which,of course,is an absolute disaster,they having been raised,trained,all else,together.And that's Fbks,where there's some 2000 animals and quite a support culture. So no,unfortunately there'll be no mule in my future...Sob... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 That is a great picture beth! A great apron too! Looks like you gave a real winner of a gift there! Now she'll want to do some cooking in her new apron... maybe some cookies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 thanks chaps doll im bed now but i will pass on your kind words and jake - i will show her the pictures of your lovely dawgs - i can hardley bear that you have to kill ones that cant be fed... thats so miserable... i hear what youre syaing about he mules/horses - many people have them near me(horses) and doll loves em and rides em but not her own, we could never have one purely on cost. no actually, on space too really! majestic noble creature tho, no denying. here is a picture for you jake, well two, one for your sobs, one cos its just a bit mad.. (ps found out today the largest unhung bell in the world remaining is in russia - ( you know this obviously but i didnt ) how cool i say to myself!) (and also that it got ruined in the casting and stayed in its cast for 100 years!!!!!!!!!!) (also read about an amaing 300 ton bell that got stolen from burma about 500 years ago ( the biggest bell in known history) and was pinched on a raft which then sunk to the bottom of a river - archeaologists/divers etc now think it is still there but 25 m under mud at bottom of the river - only way they could ever find it is by tracing huge amounts of copper sulphate out of the bronze in surroundiong water!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 You sure dig up some amasing stuff,Beth!The horse/mule train picture is neat.Where is it?White Pass?Chilkoot?It's something like this,because those look very much like "Yukon sleds",Hudson Bay Co.used to sell the hardware kits for them,and you put them together yourself. Byciclists,too,were quite common on Richarson Trail,and on this one right in front of me now,connecting Richardson with Nome,during the Gold Rush. Wonderful shot of saddled zebra!It's rare,i believe,no?Quaggas were the only more or less ridable African equines,i thought,before they went extinct. Thank you for these photos,Beth,but i must admit that i'm dreadfully disappointed in you:You actually don't believe that God has a bellybutton?!I feel dreadfully let down,that someone like you,who's so kind,sensitive,thoughtful,compassionate,and such a good person in general,as well as the mother of the LOVELIEST little girl in the world,can be so blind! OK,i'll PROVE it to you,and everyone else,then.The reason that i've been holding this a close secret is that i plan on travelling to Oxford,to Magdalene College specifically,to ASTOUND the whole civilised world with this stupendous news!So i didn't want to spoil the surprise,or risk some unprincipled person plagiarising my great theological discovery. Here it is:IF God didn't have a bellybutton,then HOW could, he/she,create Man out of the Bellybutton Fuzz?!Eh? Now,i know you sly Brits,and your theory about "...snails and puppy-dog tails...",but i tell ya,it WAS bellybutton fuzz!For certain! And where was it to come from,if...but,i won't blaspheme any more by repeating such herecy. So,i'm no good as a blacksmith,that's why i decided to become a theologian.After all,if Jude the Obscure could do it,why couldn't I?!I hope that they'll bestow the Honorary Doctorate on me right off,though,as i'm not very studious,but more inspired,you see. D'you think that they might,Beth?I do so want to be Doctor of Theology,i'm so tired of forging...Please...may i? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 glad you likes them mules jake - ijust typed in alaskan mule team or something and i got given that picture and the zebra one was further in the article. it did mention the bycilce as being a very odd way to travel in deep snow.. youd think it would be like riding in wet sand....? i have to say also that i have been knocked for absolute 6 by your mystial revelation - your insight knows know bounds! no wonder you were paranoid your secret doctrines would be plagerised - i dont know how you dared reveal them to me on here - but you obviously trust that i will keep it secret and safe. i 100 percent would endorse you as vicar of the absurd in my country - they would lap you up jake - you dhave no troubles, i think ideally you would be like the sadhus or fakhirs of the east, perhaps remaining a filthy hermit ( your words ) in nothing but a loincloth, and reying upon charitable gifts from patrons /followers of your belief system. would be good if you could do some kind of hair raising act of self harm too, from which you seem unscathed and unbothered. you could carry a bell, so joss sticks, a chillum, some candles, small bottles of mercury and other items of wonder and you would quite literally wow the crowds. hey - heres something funny for you to look up - Prophet Wroe - he is a direct descendqnt of my husband and there fore my children, and his nanna joe can remember being in prophet wroes house... if your bored one day look him up - he led a famous cult/church (whichever way you look at it ) and there were many claims made and many virgins involved, he famously publicly circumsiced himself (eek) and only came unstuck when he tried to part the river severn, obviously failed, and got chased away to aus where his church continues today - the christian isrealites. they have their own jazz music which is quie interesting actually - but his teachings are stil taught today! so youve come to the right place for bizaar theology. my dear sister is a theologion too so i will check out your credentials with her.... see how easily you draw me in! am in the workshop tomo so you lot may hear some sense to do with forge work from me soon..... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 I KNEW IT!!!You're related to the Prophet,AND,your sister is a theologian-i'm talking to an exactly right person!See?The spirits are never wrong!When i had a vision that told me i should start using the internet,why,i almost thought that i maybe shouldn't 've taken that particular mushroom...or,at least not so much of it...But!Here we have it! And here it is,the magic word:"virgins"!The beady eyes of the hermit begin to glow with a sinister red light,the filthy rags stir...Dried heads and snakes and other animal parts rustle ominously...The Cultleader future becons!I'm off to England! But first,i'll try to finish that Gothic masterpiece.May be just as well to get in good with the High Church,before i strike out on my own,and build up the Cult sufficiently.A good cultleader is a prudent one.The Real madness is Systematic! So,off to the forge,first,but then-directly to England! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Beth,dear,i've a HUGE favor to ask you:Could you,perchance,dust off your degree,and using it,your own ideas about design,and the ambient,atmospheric aura of that sort of work that you're so fortunate to dwell amongst,using all that,can you please tell me if i'm completely off,and need to scrap all this and start from scratch? Or,if i'm even remotely achieving any kind of a semblence of Gothic style?The photos will not be that good,it may actually be difficult to tell what's going on,but i'll try anyway(I'm in that nasty part of the creative process where the judgement fails me entirely,thought about it too much,am too close to the project,if you know what i mean.And the timeline's a killer,i can't just put it by for a while,but will take half a day off and just thoughtlessly pound away at these nice,simple hooks...). The overall idea toward which i'm trying to work: Now,i've that main part suspended over my planning surface,and working on the supports,combining the legs and other parts that'll tie everything together(collars). Forging the supports was easy(each was a one big chain link),but forming them was not.The semi-spherical nature of the plan turns everything into compound curves.However,it in itself gives a certain form,that i seem to like and need,and so don't resent the difficulty too much. The middle,bracing element with a pendant(collar beam in construction,not sure about forgework term)should really be welded in.But i think i'll collar it,to balance out the main collars above them that'll hold the support to the q.-foil. Now,this is what i'm thinking theoretically:Gothic stuff rests upon the symmetry employing the Many(like those many-petaled rosettes on Glouster ceiling);Four,the points of the cross and the main shape of the cathedral layout;the Three(no need to balabor this one ;the Two-as in two converging lines,converging POINTEDLY,to the ONE.One God.One focal point in most Gothic elements.One direction in the cathedral,up,completely naturally making a point of glorifying The One God. And i think there's something also about using those in natural,logical sequence,4-3-2-1,that also is important. Anyway,there'll be three collars at that junction. And here's the parts approx.brought together: So,Beth,would you,like the noble Roman Matron,point your thumb up or down?Does the Victorian Flyswatter Project live?Or do i trash it,before i've dumped any more time,fuel,and hearache into it? I trust you implicitly,and await in trepidation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 A couple of slightly more better photos,finally found something to use for a contrasting background,even if it is a feed sack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Jake - nice job on the candle stand so far, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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