TessiersFarm Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hello All, I am not nessisarilly into blacksmithing but I am hoping you all will help a fellow Blacksmith. My father has been talking for years about building a blacksmith shop but he never will for various reasons. He is now operating in the back corner of a working farm garage, which is inconvinient at best. He retires this week and will have much more time to spend in the new shop. My 4 brothers and I have decided to build him a new shop but we need input on size, ventilation and layouts. We have a little to start with, he talks about post and beam construction with T&G sheathing. Dirt floor which I plan to use Crusher Dust. Large double doors on one end. We are thinking 12x16? He has an anitque forge with hand blower it is about 3 1/2 feet wide and 2 1/2 feet front to back. From there I am lost, and need help. 3 of 5 of us boys are carpenters by trade so construction details are no problem, we just want a functional, comfortable workspace for him. If anyone can help us out we would appreciate it. Thanks The Tessier Boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Any size will work, it just depends on what he wants to make. I currently am using my backyard shed. It is about the same size as a single car garage. This space is shared with another blacksmith, and all my yard tools. But then again I don't make large pieces. I have a single car roll up door and a 12x20 window for ventilation. And my forge chimney runs out the window! (both are removable) Most of us never get the chance to design a shop, we just kind of carve out what ever space we can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2519 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 My advice for all it is worth is, "keep it simple". By that I mean ask your father what he wants if he could build a smithy. If it is supposed to be a surprise, then you will have to get your hands dirty. Read a few books on Blacksmithing and compare recuring items and placement/layout. Complete Modern Blacksmith would be a start. Visit a few Blacksmiths and look at their Smithy. Add to that suggestions you get from this thread. I would go with finding out from him what he wants first. Then steal.. I mean borrow all the good ideas you come across and incorporate those into the design. Good luck with the build and take plenty of progress photos for posting on here. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I think the anvil should be permanently placed never to be moved and the correct height for dear old dad. You should proceed from that point to lay out a circle in the dust, maybe four feet in circomfrence. For a right hander the anvil will be at 3:00 on the circle , the forge, 12:00, and the vise at 9:00. WHEN YOU BOYS BUY DAD A POWERHAMMER! it will be at 6:00. All this can be in a 12x16 shed, give him as much height to ceiling as possible, and a smoke stack as direct and big as possible. He will need racks along a wall for material storage and shelves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I have to disagree with Rusty, but as a right hander, I prefer the forge at 12,and the anvil at 9. That way I can crank the blower right handed, and don't have to let go of the tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Lots of windows and doors for natural light and good ventilation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Check out the Hofi chimney http://www.iforgeiron.com/page/index.html/_/blueprints/uri-hofi-series/bp1048-side-draft-chimney-r175 as an option to a hood. It is easy to build and effective. Think about door/window placement. If your Dad is buying 20' sticks of stock then it is pretty annoying to have to cut it outside to do anything with it. Placement of doors and windows can make a small shop seem and function a lot larger, and improve cooling and lighting. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluntEdge Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hello All, I am not nessisarilly into blacksmithing but I am hoping you all will help a fellow Blacksmith. My father has been talking for years about building a blacksmith shop but he never will for various reasons. He is now operating in the back corner of a working farm garage, which is inconvinient at best. He retires this week and will have much more time to spend in the new shop. My 4 brothers and I have decided to build him a new shop but we need input on size, ventilation and layouts. We have a little to start with, he talks about post and beam construction with T&G sheathing. Dirt floor which I plan to use Crusher Dust. Large double doors on one end. We are thinking 12x16? He has an anitque forge with hand blower it is about 3 1/2 feet wide and 2 1/2 feet front to back. From there I am lost, and need help. 3 of 5 of us boys are carpenters by trade so construction details are no problem, we just want a functional, comfortable workspace for him. If anyone can help us out we would appreciate it. Thanks The Tessier Boys 12x16 is the same size as the shop I am going to build later this summer. Please post as many photo's of your shop build as you can. I look forward to seeing your shop build for ideas on my own. I will also share photos of my build as it progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I think 12 x 16 is quite small , I would not go smaller than 16 x 16. We don't know what kind of tooling he has, but he will want more. A single car garage is narrow when the tools are added, A two car could be a decent size with room to walk without bumping into stuff. My first shop was 12 x 29, to narrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluntEdge Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 This shop is 10' wide and seems to have plenty of room for a hobbyist smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Like said above A good Smoke hood that draws well is the most important thing! I think the hofi style hood would be great. And second most important is light. Natural lighting is wonderful when you can get it. If you are going to use tin for the roof look into the white translucent panels for some of the roof panels. They do not let in direct sun light as that would be to bright, but they defuse the light into the shop and really brighten the place up. Wile I worked in Mr Dillons shop over the summer it was always vary bright in the shop, one day I looked up and noticed the shop lights were turned off! Turned out he almost never turned them on, he had the translucent panels maybe every 3rd panel in his roof and they were great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Make it as large as you can, when you see the fun your father is having you will all want a go !!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I had to build my shop as small as I could on account of budget considerations, like I'd say the better half of us do. I used graph paper, it really gives you a pretty accurate sense of scale if you factor in the footprint of each major component to fill a given space. IE; hood,PH anvil table(s), etc..........I came pretty close to right on using this method........But they're ALWAYS too small..........:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I would look at Dad's current set up to see how his equipment is placed. That will give you a starting point, since you can see from here that there is already disagreement on proper anvil placement. I would include a back door, a double door if possible, so that the whole shop can be opened up for cross ventilation. A couple of smaller windows that can be opened for ventilation in colder weather would be good too. (A back door also gives you a direction to expand the shop later ;-) ) Standard hot rolled steel comes in 20 foot lengths, pipe in 21 foot, and tubing in 24 footers. A lot of folks working out of smaller spaces store their stuff in 1/2 lengths, so leave room for a good sized stock rack. For the last couple of summers I have wound up putting my EZup tent and a leg vise outside the door so I can do most of the heavier and dirtier grinding outside. These two points suggest that some sheltered outdoor space would be good for cutting stock to fit in the shop or doing dirty work. (Sounds like you're out in the country, I wouldn't suggest it if the neighbors are only 30 feet away. Ha. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 My suggestion is to find the local blacksmith guild/club in your area, visit local member's shops and let them give you a tour and let them explain the reasons for their shop design and layout. As people have said above, form follows function, the size and layout of the shop will determine what can be done in it. After visiting shops over the years I decided to build my shop based on the layout of a wheelwright shop because I do both blacksmithing and woodworking. One end of the shop has the blacksmith equipment, the other end of the shop has a woodworking area with wood lofts for the drying and storage of wood. Between the two areas is a drive-thru lane with large garage doors at both the front and back of the building. Pre-planning how the steel will be delivered, stored, cut to length, forged, cleaned and finished as it moves between storage and workstations is a good idea so that you can determine if the workflow will fit within the planned structure. Pre-planning a location for a possible compressor and possible locations for a powerhammer and other equipment will also make life easier as the planning for tools to help make up for the process of human aging, will allow your father to enjoy his shop for many years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 One item I would suggest is how high to make the ceiling, 12ft would be great but no lower than 10ft. This will help with ventilation and moving long pieces of metal around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I heartily agree with Adam above on talking with him. I understand the attraction of wanting to just give him this lovely gift all at once. It will make you and your brothers proud. But you main goal here as sons is not to feel proud, but to get your father what he really needs. In order to know what he needs the only way is to talk with him. As you see above there are conflicting ideas even anongst professionals because we are all different. If you do something as permanent as install a chimney chances are he will secretly wish it was 3 inches to the left. Plus, and this is a big bonus- you all will get to spend time together, which you may find is the most precious gift you can actually give him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 build the largest you can afford, nobody will be disappointed let him decide where everything goes later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessiersFarm Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 I appreciate all the replies. Money is not really a factor, to a certain extent. The location is a working farm so size is not really too much of a problem, more so the problem will be junk that doesn't belong there. It will be ajacent to a 50x60 shop so roughing out materials and even material storage is a non-issue. He won't even talk about it much, he claims its too much money for a hobby, and he is too old for that, but he is just retiring next week and still in fair to good health. Right now he is in a 12x12 area and seams real happy when he is working, although ventilation and light are both issues. I was thinking 8' walls with open ceiling, about 12 or 13' to the ridge. I was thinking to extend the roof 6 or 8 feet on the front for a porch type of thing, he likes to sit and tell about it. I was also intending to keep his layout the same, he could have all the room he wants where he is so I think it is layed out well for him. I also intend to build or buy a power hammer at some point, his shoulder bothers him some. How much area do those require? He is going to be out of town in a few weeks and we are going to build it while he is gone, Mother insisted on that, after all she is the boss. Thanks again, it has already helped, and we look forward to more. The Tessiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisG Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 You are some nice sons, and to help you out you can build a practice shop at my place that way you can see what to expect and how well everything works. I wonder if when I am ready to retire Andie will build me a shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2519 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Well, if your going to add a power hammer down the track, how big a power hammer? If it's going to be relatively small you wont need too much room, if it's going to be a monster, then you will have to leave a nice big chuck of space free. Allow room for the slab of reinforced concrete to support it and make sure that side of the smithy can have the wall taken down so you can just roll it in with little fuss and drop it in place. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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