John4890 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hey everybody my name is John and this is my first post to this site and I am curious as to how everything works. I have two problems that happen every time I start a new project. First of all, I've been forging for about three years, but mainly in the spring and summer so more like one and a half years. I am only 20, so I still live at home and I can't build a workshop or anything like that, so I just forge in the sunlight out of a small brake drum forge. The first problem I have has actually only affected the last few projects I've worked on. I'm not doing anything different, so I don't know what the problem is. The last three projects end up cracking and I'm afraid that if I continue hammering the piece will break. (First picture) The second problem I have which isn't a huge deal is that my projects end up twisting. I can fix this, so it's probably just the way I hold the piece while I'm hammering. (Second picture) Any advice for this problem would be appreciated. And just some more info that might help you all: I use bituminous coal, I hold the piece I'm working on with vise grips because I find it easier, my anvil is the one from harbor freight (so not a very good one). I don't know if that will help, but I figured I would just put it in. Thanks everyone in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 first pic looks like your over heating the steel. This is easy to do in sunlight as that light source varies in intensity, but our eyes compensate. An example: my shop seems very bright when working inside, but people walking in from outside think its dark, until their eyes adjust. so you see the same color to your adjusted eyes, but its much brighter, and hotter. as for second photo's twisting, you twisted it, you can un twist it, as you gain skill you will do better, and that wont be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Those last three projects where the cracking is a problem... What's the material being worked on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Regarding the twisting, that is probably a hammer control problem, it may be that the stance you use and/or the anvil height are incorrect. The section produced when forging on an anvil of any type is a reflection of the hammers face in relation to the anvil surface beneath the striking area, What also may be contributing is that by using vise grips the workpiece is not being held in the required relationship between the blade and tang area, and as you forge this gets progressively worse The hammer marks and cross section of the workpiece where forged and in relation to the part being held will show you where you are going wrong, you just have to identify what is occurring and why, and then correct it. As for the cracking, type of material and correct forging heat, with as few heats as possible help, Practice and guidance if you can get to a local group or individual would be beneficial, good luck with your endeavours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Seeing Colors Read the above material and tell us what color the steel is when you work it. Has it been the same steel for all the projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I often forge under an old canvas tarp when demo'ing so I can see the proper colour of the steel. Set up is simple, 4-6 poles, ropes, stakes. Been using the same one for over 20 years now. As for twisting, a postvise is almost the perfect tool for tweaking out twists---hot of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 from what I see you are over heating the metal the second picture looks like the top of a RR spike and it looks to have a film like a clinker on it. Practice will help with the straighting hammer control comes with time. Have you sought out your local blacksmithing group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John4890 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 All of the metal I forge is some sort of railroad piece, but mostly spikes. On the head of the spikes I can usually make out an 'HC' which I assume stands for high carbon. I never thought of putting a tarp over the work area, but that's a great idea. Would forging in the shade under trees work? I would say the branches are high enough. The color I get ranges from bright orange to bright yellow. So, it must be hotter than I think it is if that is the color in sunlight... And my anvil is not high at all. It is mounted on a block of wood and I have to kneel when I hammer. So, I will definitely change that. I have been trying to get away from the vise grips because it's not traditional and the teeth sometimes leave marks in the piece that I have to grind away. I have looked into blacksmithing groups, but they all cost money which I don't have. I'll keep looking for one in my price range, or I could attend some demos and ask as many questions as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 John, I'm not sure what it costs to join a blacksmith group in NJ, but to join the "Illinois Valley Blacksmith Association" only costs $15 a year. I think that the guys have truely hit your forging problems correctly. Good luck, and welcome to IFI. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 According to the New Jersey Blacksmith Association web site: http://njba.abana-chapter.com/ NJBA Dues are $20 per year. They are a great group with their fair share of very knowledgeable people. I very highly recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Most guilds will allow non-members to attend their meetings and (possibly) events without joining the guild. Talk with the president of the guild local to you and ask if there is some service you could perform for the guild to be able to forego the cost of dues or attendance fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Looks like you pounded some scale in to it as well. Get your anvil up higher. They say the standard is your knuckles should just touch the face when you make a fist with your arm straight at your side. I say they are a bunch of idiots and don't know that they are talking about. It really is all a matter of personal preferance. I prefer my anvil a little higher. I'd say it is about at my wrist, a bit lower actually, but above my knuckles. You don't need any fancy stand or stump. I have mine on bunch of 4x4's screwed together. Works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I have been trying to get away from the vise grips because it's not traditional and the teeth sometimes leave marks in the piece that I have to grind away. Grind away the teeth on the vise grips (grin) The colors can move up or down the scale as much as 2 or 3 colors when you change lighting conditions. If you need a standard to go by, get a cardboard box or wooden or metal container and place the steel inside the container to *see* the color. Using the color system you can learn to hit the same color within 7 percent or so repeatedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Trees work if you have heavy shade; out on the treeless plains they used to suspend a wooden barrel in the air near the forge to allow the smith to check the colour in a dark place when doing emergency work on a wagon train. Most groups will be glad to see you even without being a member---at least for a while. You might also find someone nearby you can carpool with---we used to pile up in one smith's van to drive 2 hours every month for the SOFA meetings in OH! I was president of an ABANA affiliate and we never turned anyone away who wasn't a member. And I concur on anvil height: even with knuckles is for using top tooling and sledges. If you are knifemaking I'd start at wrist height and tweak to suit yourself. HC RR spikes are at the upper end of mild steel and lower end of medium carbon steel; not a great knife alloy. Car springs have usually around twice as much carbon---and they are still considered a medium carbon steel. The funny "&" shaped RR clips made of rectangular cross section steel are a much better alloy if you are limited to RR steel---but please read the thread about cracking down on folks browsing the RR tracks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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