Fosterob Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was asked buy a designer to quote some light fixtures to go atop the stone columns on either side of a driveway gate. The people want to have UL listed fixtures. Has anyone ran into this before? Ideas? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Gilmore Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 If you are only going to make a few fixtures it makes financial sense to find someone who is ul listed and have them test your fixtures and put their labels on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 To get a UL listing costs a lot of money. They need to test the product to destruction a few times under very controlled circumstances. Are you sure the customer doesn't simply want UL listed sockets & cords? http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/manufacturer/prepareforulevaluation/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 I am hoping to use UL parts but I got the impression from the designer that the people who did the custom lights for the previously put a UL sticker on the entire fixture. I think that is what they would like. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Couple different friends of mine got UL certifications for their shops. Ran about $12,000.00. There is no provision for "having someone put a sticker on it". They have to be built in a UL certified shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 CSA can certify to UL standards, if you want one particular model of a light certified they can do a UL certification on that one model. I think the last time we had it done where I used to work, it cost about 5,000 dollars. Here is a link to their site. http://www.csa-international.org/csa_certifies/ In most cases that I can think of, the certified lights mainly pertained to lights being attached to a house. If they are going outside on top of some collums they may not need to be certified. There are multiple certifications, wet location, damp location, and dry location. There is also a list of all the certified companies by CSA on that web site. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I would talk to your local power authority. UL and CSA are for production items. Here in Ontario there is a electrical safety authority that can come out and test electrical equipment and place a sticker that makes it legal for use in Ontario. We ran into a problem at Caniron here in Hamilton because neither the Striker power hammer or the Sahinler hammer were CSA approved. UL is not enough here in Ontario things must be CSA approved. The Striker dealer was able to pay a different inspector to come and approve that machine. I am sure there are businesses in your area that bring in machinery from offshore or build one off pieces of machinery. These machines would have to be inspected before being hooked up to the grid, you want to find out who does that kind of inspection in your area. They could then inspect your fixtures and sticker them, not UL or CSA but they would be legal in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Just so you know; the above alternatives will not get you a UL approval and sticker and many insist on that.Most local building departments won't accept anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Experience that I had: I made the "structure" of the lamp,but paid a UL certified shop here in town to wire it. The WIRING is the UL part. The cost was minimal compared to liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Experience that I had: I made the "structure" of the lamp,but paid a UL certified shop here in town to wire it. The WIRING is the UL part. The cost was minimal compared to liability. Thank you, I have been thinking this would be the way to go if we have such a shop nearby. The other option I was able to come up with is to mount a small outdoor UL fixture by itself and my lights would just cover them. The lights are about 12" square at the base and are 21" tall with tapering sides to 9" at top. Think of a tent over a bulb. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 eric sprado Posted Today, 06:59 PM Experience that I had: I made the "structure" of the lamp,but paid a UL certified shop here in town to wire it. The WIRING is the UL part. The cost was minimal compared to liability. I too have done this to get a UL sticker, but it's not just the wiring that must meet code. My understanding is that it's also how the wiring runs thru the fixture i.e. no sharp edges, minimum bend radius, all parts bonded for ground as well as things like square inches of venting to prevent overheating, etc. Do your homework on what the requirements are before you contact a lighting/electric shop that does this kind of work so you can talk the talk and not be seen as wasting their time. As noted in other posts it's not cheap but better than getting sued. Build it into your price, if the clients balk at paying for a safe product walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 As an Electrician, I never stop wondering why so many people never think of actually hiring the pros to do it? There has been some great advice here, but I feel that contacting the local professionals is the best way to go. I do admit I am biased, as I have the training experience, and licenses, remember most places give free estimates . you have nothing to loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 As an Electrician, I never stop wondering why so many people never think of actually hiring the pros to do it? There has been some great advice here, but I feel that contacting the local professionals is the best way to go. I do admit I am biased, as I have the training experience, and licenses, remember most places give free estimates . you have nothing to loose. Thank you Steve, As an electrician what does it mean to be able to wire something to pass UL listing? Is that any licensed electrical contractor or are there more hoops for the electrician to jump through. I am trying to find an electrician that can do this, what should I look for. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thank you Steve, As an electrician what does it mean to be able to wire something to pass UL listing? Is that any licensed electrical contractor or are there more hoops for the electrician to jump through. I am trying to find an electrician that can do this, what should I look for. Rob UL, Underwriters Laboratories, is an independent product safety certification organization. working with OSHA. The founding company is not-for-profit, but it does have a for-profit branch to support the parent company's work. Being listed, means, the shop/factory has submitted products and procedures for examination. I am not listed. but some of my past services have been. In the US Fixtures to be sold use this to prove they are safe and comply with safety reg's. Other countries have differing rules. People like to throw names/big words around, your client may not be asking the correct questions of you. Have you inquired to WHY they think they need it UL listed? Do they know what that means, or is it a term they think they are using correctly? If they really want UL listed lights they should buy off the rack. Realistically, your "one off lights" will not be UL listed. but they can be compliant, and fully legal. While a smith can make the iron mountings, getting a locally licensed Electrician to wire and install it, keeps the Smith out of legal troubles, and insures the property owner that it is insured (by the electrical contractor) and wired correctly. In my area, All work except for painting and carpeting need a permit here, other areas may not worry about them. check local area laws. but having a Licensed Electrician wire it up rather than some blacksmith is legal, safe, and keeps the owners Insurance company happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 The UL requirement is coming from the lighting designer (they sell lighting) and they must be worried about the liability. They have chosen a substitute fixture but the client and architect would prefer the original design. The tapered light is what they want, the straight one on pipe post is the UL substitute. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space hammer Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 In the last shop I worked at, we made three $15,000 bronze lanterns for an historic church reno. They needed a UL sticker too, and we simply took them to a light shop that wired them and put on the stickers. This was a very thoroughly by the book job too. Light shop charged maybe 200 bucks or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 On 3/14/2011 at 9:13 AM, space hammer said: In the last shop I worked at, we made three $15,000 bronze lanterns for an historic church reno. They needed a UL sticker too, and we simply took them to a light shop that wired them and put on the stickers. This was a very thoroughly by the book job too. Light shop charged maybe 200 bucks or so. Thank you, That is what I had in mind, now I need to find that shop locally. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Call UL and ask them for a list of shops in your area that are certified to wire , test and approve custom light fixtures of the type you are making. They are usually quite helpful with this. Make your piece with adequately sized wire runs, smooth bends, no burrs or sharp corners and provisions for grounding the fixture. Take the completed fixture to the shop , have them do a professional and fully legal job. Hang or mount the piece if needed, but leave the final electrical connection to be made by the licensed, bonded and insured electrical contractor of record. Charge the client accordingly. If they balk at paying for doing it right, the best option is to refuse to take the commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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